The NYC school bus strike, how are you coping?

Clarissa

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 6:21 pm

amother wrote:

I'm a high school social studies teacher in a Brooklyn girls high school and we had a really educational, objective current events class totally discussing the strike. I brought a lot of first hand accounts from here LOL

in the guise of people I "spoke to" or read about.

I tried to be objective in all sides: Union, workers, NYC, Bloomberg, parents, schools, students, special needs students, money saving, high price of per child transportation, legality of EPP etc.... And I challenged the girls to come with a solution. A couple of them tried, specifically in regards to the special needs kids but every idea, another student (or I) was able to shoot down for various reasons. At the end the class concluded that all sides have a point and that they have no idea how to end this with a compromise that is somewhat fair to all. Very enlightening and vigorous thirty minute talk.

Fantastic post. See? No need to be anonymous. You should be proud of this post. You sound like a great teacher.

amother

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 6:25 pm

Clarissa wrote:

amother wrote:

Fantastic post. See? No need to be anonymous. You should be proud of this post. You sound like a great teacher.

Thanks. I have enough identifying factors about me that just one more (the fact that I am a high school social studies teacher) and everyone I know in real life, would know my screen name. While some do already, I am trying to preserve some anonymity. T

Clarissa

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 6:26 pm

amother wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

First of all, you just attacked me as amother.

Second of all, you have an agenda with me, so you're arguing with me. You're a pretty small person to resort to this. Seriously. You didn't like something I said, so you're fighting with me anonymously. That's exactly how it shouldn't be used. Show me who you are or be quiet.

I didn't attack you as amother. I furthered a discussion you started with me and explained myself. I don't have an agenda with you. I am not militant and I posted some personal information about myself on this thread. IRL I don't talk about my career either.

You may not tell me when to be quiet. You need to start your own site so you can dictate the rules and the content of the threads.

If you can accuse me of being mean to you, you can identify yourself. I can accuse you of killing my dog. So what? So don't be quiet. Keep blabbing. Helps me figure out who you are.

Clarissa

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 6:27 pm

amother wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

amother wrote:

Fantastic post. See? No need to be anonymous. You should be proud of this post. You sound like a great teacher.

You're the kind of teacher I want for my kids.

Barbara

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 7:04 pm

scrltfr wrote:

Barbara wrote:

scrltfr wrote:

Where have I whined? I am sure the schools have gone through every possible scenario but having different hours, after school babysitting, etc. Is just just not feasible.

Why?

Most public schools in my area have after on site school care, run by outside providers. Parents do have to pay for it. But as a short term solution, I would think that a parent-run program might provide some relief.

Because parents don't pay when their kids go to public school so shelling out some money is doable. For those barely able to pay yeshiva tuition a few hundred dollars could mean no food on the table. And as far as I know many of the after school programs are paid for by grants from the govt.

Lots of those public school parents are very poor.

I agree that this would not be easy. It may not even work. But I am throwing it out as a possibility because, well, someone needs to try something.

Rutabaga

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 7:35 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Did anyone mention carpool lanes? In many locations where busing is not provided, the schools have a carpool lane to keep dropoffs and pickup safe and organized.

Obviously NYC is not set up with carpool lanes, so things are bound to be more hectic. The funny thing is that carpool lanes would never work there anyway. Tell a new yorker that he has to wait in a single file line for twenty minutes without beeping and he'll think you're either crazy or joking.

DD's school does this. Every carpool gets a number. Every carpool member gets a big sign with that number to put in the windshield. At dismissal, the carpools line up single file. There is a staff member with a walkie-talkie in front of the building calling out to a coordinator which carpools are there. Inside the building, all the kids in each carpool are grouped together. When their number is called, a teacher escorts them outside to the correct car. It's an extremely efficient system.

marina

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 7:44 pm

mamommommy wrote:

marina wrote:

mamommommy wrote:

chavamom wrote:

mamommommy wrote:

marina wrote:

mamommommy wrote:

marina wrote:

I'm appalled at the number of people who think the government owes their kids a free ride. I'm sure half of you think it's horrible to take handouts from Uncle Sam and that the welfare system is killing our country.

Yet you whine because the government stopped, temporarily, providing a free service for you. Hypocritical much?

Do they also owe us free schooling? Free garbage removal? Free police safety? etc......

Our taxes pay for all of these services, including busing, and continues to do so while we no longer receive the service. People deserve to know what their taxes pay for. If at any point busing, or welfare, is NOT part of the deal, then people should, and generally do, have plenty of advanced warning and notice that it's coming down the pike to plan their lives accordingly.

ok. What percent of frum Brooklyn families pay taxes again?

That, my friend, is a completely different conversation. I don't live in Brooklyn. And I pay a truckload of taxes. I want my "free" busing.

Most of us who live OOT don't get any busing. While we pay our taxes, the gov't doesn't subsidize parochial schools' busing costs d/t state-church separation. Where is *my* free busing?

Maybe one day you'll get it. It's really all political, and it's different state by state. All kids in the US are technically entitled to a free public school education. Some states have determined that once you go to a parochial school, you forfeit all rights to public funding since public funding cannot be used for a religious education. However, some states, like NY, have determined (correctly in my opinion) that students are still entitled to services that are clearly of a non-sectarian nature, such as busing and free (secular) textbooks. The trend happens to be moving more in this direction, that is allowing for public funding to go towards the secular potion of a parochial school education (you've heard of school vouchers?).

It also certainly helps that the parochial school (or yeshiva) population is fairly well represented in NY politics, so our rights and needs are possibly taken into higher consideration.

Let's go through one by one.

1. There's NOTHING entitling any students to a free public education. Zilch. A state can choose to abolish their public school system altogether if it chooses. The only requirement is to not discriminate among groups of students should a state choose to provide free education and also the state must conduct due process hearings before denying a child education, if everyone else is given one.

2. The primary Supreme Court case addressing public use of funds for parochial schools forbids state funding for even secular materials such as textbooks and salaries. This case has been questioned and is controversial at the highest levels, but the ruling still stands and has not been overturned. Enjoy some Lemon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....tzman

1. Every single state in the United States uses tax money to provide students with "free education" in the form of public schools. Therefore in whatever state I live, my child is technically entitled to this service. (If you take issue with the word entitled, I'll happily change it.) Of course, a state can always vote to remove public schools from its budget, and then my child is no longer entitled to anything, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

2. While the Lemon Law is the overarching law governing the criteria for when public funds may be used for religious purposes, that law was only applied to teachers' salaries and materials seen as directly promoting a religion, and not to busing or secular textbooks also used in the public schools. The law is definitely not black and white and much discretion is left to the individual states, and many, many states continue to use public funds to pay for the secular portion of private education. It is very easy to argue that many aspects of some of today's parochial schools easily pass the "Lemon Test."

Obviously this issue is highly debatable which is why there are so many cases on it.

Yes, my issue is with the word entitled. And with the entire sense of entitlement on this thread.

Reality

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 8:15 pm

My girls are in in BYBP. Since it is such a large school (2,000+ students) I don't think that gives my identity away. Other people don't realize that the school has already implemented staggered dismissal time I.e. preschool dismissal starts at 3:30, 1st and 2nd at 3:45 3rd through 5th at 4 and 6th through 8th at 4:10. Secondly they have a few teachers watching the kids until 5:00 for parents who can't make it earlier.

But it is not enough. The traffic is insane. The street is closed off for BYBP's own private bus service. The avenue is so crowded. There is no where to pull in, no where to park. There is no normal way to find your child. Those people who have not expereinced it should hold their tongues.

I didn't hear people complaining about it in the beginning but now it is beginning to wear thin. Very nice for people to say make a carpool. Duh. We are doing that. But you have no idea what is it like finding a place to park, and then locating everyone in your carpool etc..

I love the people saying other places have traffic not only nyc. When we were in boston a few years ago, some people told us make sure not to drive in rush hour the traffic is so bad. Anyway, we ended up driving during rush hour and we all commented that we wish this was nyc rush hour!!

My point is people have a valid complaint. Is it the worst situation in the world? No. But they have a right to gripe about it on a public message board. You don't like it? Ignore the posts and move on.

As for the unions, they may have done wonderful and I say wonderful things in the past but times have changed and it is sad but many of them are not so wonderful anymore. They care more about lining the pockets of the big-wigs in charge than about the common worker.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 8:17 pm

Rutabaga wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Yeah, thats pretty much how it works here too. Are you in Brooklyn? If so, why aren't more schools doing this?

Reality

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 8:19 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Rutabaga wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Yeah, thats pretty much how it works here too. Are you in Brooklyn? If so, why aren't more schools doing this?

If it is a large school it may not be possible. I just wrote I send to BYBP. How many carpools are there 1,000?

Rutabaga

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 8:32 pm

Reality wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Rutabaga wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Yeah, thats pretty much how it works here too. Are you in Brooklyn? If so, why aren't more schools doing this?

If it is a large school it may not be possible. I just wrote I send to BYBP. How many carpools are there 1,000?

I am not in Brooklyn, and DD's school is not as large as BYBP, but there must be some system that could help alleviate the chaos.

You mentioned that it was difficult to find your child. Perhaps the school could implement a system where children with last names ending in A-G, H-M, N-S, and T-Z can all be brought to different corners of the block. There must be some other ideas people could come up with.

octopus

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 8:33 pm

Rutabaga wrote:

Reality wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Rutabaga wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Yeah, thats pretty much how it works here too. Are you in Brooklyn? If so, why aren't more schools doing this?

If it is a large school it may not be possible. I just wrote I send to BYBP. How many carpools are there 1,000?

do you know how many other schools are in the same vicinity? more than I can count on my hand. It's not just a congestion issue related to bybp.

Clarissa

Tue, Feb 12 2013, 8:41 pm

Rutabaga wrote:

Reality wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Rutabaga wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Yeah, thats pretty much how it works here too. Are you in Brooklyn? If so, why aren't more schools doing this?

If it is a large school it may not be possible. I just wrote I send to BYBP. How many carpools are there 1,000?

That's not a bad idea. Maybe the parents should set up a meeting with the administration and have several possible game plans, so the most efficient ones can be implemented.