Malachim (group within Lubavitch)

YALT

Wed, Jan 21 2009, 7:13 pm

klotzkashe wrote:

the Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneersohn that R' Avrohom der Malach was a chossid of was the Tzemach Tzedek and not the heintiker Rebbe. When the Rebbe Rashab took the Nesius, they refused to accept him as Rebbe. it started off from there.

Malochim don't eat processed foods THE ENTIRE YEAR. They only eat foods that were made at home.

wow. I wonder if I dated a malach.
He wouldn't eat anything that he himself didn't personally know the rov hamachshir as well as the actual mashgiach.
Even Rabbi Gorelik from Italy wasn't good enough for him.
But now I understand - maybe he was a malach. Although I did think he was Lubavitch....

gryp

Wed, Jan 21 2009, 7:16 pm

Atali wrote:

ganizzy wrote:

this is very interesting - I didnt know any of it.

my q' is if this avraham the malach was really a close chassid, wouldnt he have accepted at least one of the other sons as a Rebbe, without starting his own branch?

at first I thought we were talking about R' Avraham the Malach, child of the mezeritcher maggid(?)

R' Avrohom was a chossid of the Rebbe Maharash (I think) but never accepted the Rebbe Rashab. The Rebbe Rashab only had one brother, R' Zalman Aharon, who did not become a Rebbe so there was no other Rebbe for R' Avrohom to go to.

I wonder how they got to Williamsburg.

Lechatchila Ariber

Wed, Jan 21 2009, 7:30 pm

Atali wrote:

Racheli wrote:

From what I heard, they are a group (maybe not quite the right word) of Lubavitchers who have their own customs going back to the time of the first Lubavitcher rebbe. Apparently, the Rebbe (Menachem Mendel Schneerson) told them to continue with their minhagim and not to take on the "standard" Lubavitch minhagim. All I know of these other minhagim have to do with their minhag not to eat any processed foods on Pesach (which I understand many mainstream Lubavitchers do as well) and something to do with wearing tzitzit over their shirts.

Does anyone know more than that?

No, those aren't the Malachim, those are just regular Lubavitchers who came from other groups who the rebbe encouraged to keep their minhagim.

The Malachim are a different group entirely.

I think that the OP has probably heard of families such as the Zirkind family, as others on this thread have mentioned that come from R' Avrohom Hamalach and were told by the Rebbe to keep their levush and minhogim.
But this isn't an entire group, it's a family within lubavitch.
There are also other people that come from different groups that were instructed by the Rebbe to keep their levush, yet they are lubavitch

YALT

Wed, Jan 21 2009, 7:36 pm

Lechatchila Ariber wrote:

Atali wrote:

Racheli wrote:

No, those aren't the Malachim, those are just regular Lubavitchers who came from other groups who the rebbe encouraged to keep their minhagim.

The Malachim are a different group entirely.

An example is Rabbi Twersky.
There are more ppl than most are aware of.
GR, I've never heard of the malachim before. Actually, somewhere in the back of my brain, I do have stored that term. But I didn't know what/who they were.
So if I understand correctly, the malochim come from R' Avrohom Malach, but they are not the same thing as the Zirkinds, who actually descend from him?

shluchamom

Wed, Jan 21 2009, 8:24 pm

Alot of confusion here. Let me clarify somewhat: Reb Avrohom HaMalach was the son of the Mezritcher Maggid. He has no connection to any of this. This Rabbi Chaim Avrohom Dovid Levine was indeed a Chossid of the Rebbe RaShaB as well, and his story has nothing to do with the "machlokes ho'achim" (the brothers fight), meaning which son of the Tzemach Tzedek (third Chabad Rebbe) should be the official memale mokom (successor) of their father. He was a special Chossid, and therefore was chosen by the Rebbe RaShaB to be one of the Frierdiker Rebbe's melamdim. During that time something happened which caused the Rebbe RaShaB anguish and he ruled against Reb Avrohom Dovid. Reb Avrohom Dovid got upset and left Lubavitch and moved to the US, where he opened up his own "rebbisteve" and being a Talmid Chochom and very charismatic, and acting as a Chossid of old, who davened for hours every day in the true Chabad way etc. etc., people gave him the title "malach" and his followers were called the "malochim". At this point in history there was only Lubavitch left of the various Chabad branches, the other dynasties (Kopust, Liadi, Bobruisk etc.) had fizzled out (their children and grandchildren were far from Rebbe material and had no interest whatsoever in leading a rebbisteve). Nevertheless, as he never left the Chabad Derech, obviously they learnt Chassidus, davened Chabad Nussach, and kept the then-known Chabad Minhogim.

After his passing, and the Frierdiker Rebbe's arrival in the US, some of his followers became Lubavitchers, as that was the only Chabad existent, whereas others decided to continue their own group on their own without a spiritual leader. Naturally they had to define themselves in what way are they different from Lubavitch, so they define themselves as holding the Satmar Shitta against Lubavitch, although that has absolutely nothing to do with the original split of Reb Avrohom "the Malach" from Lubavitch.

Mama Bear

Wed, Jan 21 2009, 8:25 pm

Satmar does not learn tanya DAILY. they might learn it if it's a peirush in a sefer or it's quoted somewhere, but not straight tanya and not daily and not as part of yeshiva or kollel curriculum.

To the people who asked: The malachim were the first chasidim to settle in williamsburg prior to WWII. They simply settled here, just like some other chasidim settled in CH after the war (and later moved away).

yet

Wed, Jan 21 2009, 8:25 pm

I just spoke to a Zirkind family member who emailed me some clarifications.

1) bandcm Posted: Today at 6:55 pm wrote: The Malachim have no connection with Lubavitch, since the time of Rabbi Avraham the Malach, who was the teacher of the Frierdiker Rebbe (I think). and Posted: Today at 8:10 pm wrote: You~re right Atali, Reb Avrohom the Malach was a chosid of the Rebbeim. Thats why the Rashab chose him to be the Frierdiker Rebbes teacher.

R' Avrohom the Malach was the son of the Mezritcher Maggid and was a Chaver of the Alter Rebbe (nothing to do with the Frierdiker Rebbe - the one who taught the Frierdiker Rebbe was called Reb Itche the Masmid - not Reb Avrohom the Malach).

2) chocolate moose Posted: Today at 7:56 pm wrote :They are descended from one of the Tzemach Tzedek's sons or grandchildren. Zirkind is from them as well.

One of the Malachim's first Rebbes was the son/grandson of the Tzemach Tzedek, but the Zirkinds are not descended from the Tzemach Tzedek nor from the Malachim. The Zirkinds just happened to daven in the Malachim Shul when they lived in Williamsburg before the War.

3) YALT Posted: Today at 10:36 pm wrote: So if I understand correctly, the malochim come from R' Avrohom Malac[color=] [/color]h, but they are not the same thing as the Zirkinds, who actually descend from him? and Lechatchila Ariber Posted: Today at 10:44 pm wrote: YALT I'm not sure myself but my guess is yes, because currently the famiy is lubavitch not anything else, but yes they do come from him.

The Zirkinds are NOT Malachim NOR are they descended from the Malachim!

Imaonwheels

Thu, Jan 22 2009, 4:44 am

To make some seder.

There has been one Lubavitch all along.

When the Maharash was mistalek there was a period when chassidim came to both of his 2 sons but eventually Lubavitch, including the 2nd son came under the Rashab.

A generation before the Tzemach Tzedek had 6 sons who all became Admirim, the Rebbe Maharash was one. One of these groups, the Kapuster chassidim who ended up in Yerushalayim, eventually rejoined Lubavitch. Many small and medium chassiduses we have today were founded by these sons or decendents of the grandchildren of the Alter Rebbe and R' Levi Yitzchok of Berditchov. You can see these at the gatherings held every year of the organization of the Alter Rebbe's decendents.

I do not know these "malachim" or modern day Lyozhners. We have a few weird outgrowths in Israel but they have real emuna problems and have been denounced by the BD and may not even enter a minyan.

bandcm

Thu, Jan 22 2009, 5:34 am

yet wrote:

The Zirkind family notwothstanding, the leader of the Malachim was known as Reb Avraham the Malach. YES, there was another Reb Avrohom the Malach, who was the son of the Magid.

And sorry, you and the Zirkinds are mistaken - Reb Itche the Masmid was a chosid of the Frierdiker Rebbe, not his teacher. He came to my city when my grandfather was an adult. The Frierdiker Rebbe's teacher was Reb Avrohom the Malach the Second (lets call him).

By your own admission, the Zirkinds have no connection with the Malachim, so why would this family be an authority?? I have nothing against the Zirkinds, I dont even know them, but much of your info is mistaken.

Raisin

Thu, Jan 22 2009, 6:10 am

Imaonwheels wrote:

Raisin wrote:

I can understand why they are "barely extant" if they do not eat any processed food. What woman would agree to such a minhag?

Are you being sarcastic? I was taugh this as normal Chabad practice as a new BT.

the whole year round? if we ate the whole year round as we did on pesach I would be a wreck. Imagine having to make everything from scratch everyday? it would be insane. no pasta, bread, ready made cookies, peanut butter, cheese.