Monsey Cheder - Vien, Munkatch or Imrei Shefer

Raisin ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 7:12 am

mandr wrote:

TO tell you the truth, I'd be leery about a Chassidish school that has zero rules regarding parents' dress. I don't mean they have to have lots of nitty gritty rules, but at least some normal ones?

We let you have a TV, internet whatever...
You can wear shorts, sandals, no sheitel, short-sleeves...
You can vacation with your children in Amsterdam while you do your business...

Rules are good for us. The Torah is one giant rule book.

Come on. A school needs rules. For parents too. Your children model you. They bring part of you to school with them each day. If I'd run a school I'd definitely want my students coming from a home that adheres to decent standards.

#

I know many many people, chabad shluchim, who send their kids to community schools with mostly non religious kids. Guess what? the vast majority of these shluchims kids are amazing, truly frum, strong people. And most chabad schools are very inclusive and will take almost any kid, whatever their background. One of my relatives is from a not frum home. Her parents sent her to a chabad school...now she is frum.

True, it is much easier to tell your kid, sorry, I know Melissa's parents let her wear shorts/go to the movies/etc but we are chabad so we don't do that, then to say the same thing about Malky whose parents go to your shul and whose father wears a kapota, but I still believe yiddishkiet comes from the home. Letting your kid know that not everyone follows yiddishkiet in the same way is fine, and a great life lesson. Of course, having at least some classmates on a similar frumkiet level to your family is also important, especially as they hit the teenage years.

↑ MaBelleVie ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 7:52 am

Squishy wrote:

I agree with you about the shorts and sandals. I wouldn't want to send my kids to a school where my kids could go into a house where the mom is wearing shorts. This is against halacha in any school that I would send to. I can't imagine that it is not against halacha in a chassidish school.

I expect the families to be vetted. A no TV and Internet rule may mean the parents still watch secretly, but it is not out in the open for my child to be exposed to. Similarly, I don't want my children to be in and out of houses with mothers in shorts. I am proud to be a parent of the schools I send to. I wouldn't be if there weren't standards.

Schools are not sending kids to other people's homes. If you don't want your kids exposed to it you can vet the families yourself before sending you kids over.

↑ 33055 ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 8:14 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

Schools are not sending kids to other people's homes. If you don't want your kids exposed to it you can vet the families yourself before sending you kids over.

Yes the schools are vetting the homes. I expect every family to be respectful of the heskofa of the school they send to. I don't have to re-vet them, nor would I ask the questions the schools are able to. When a person affirms there is no TV, I don't have to go into their home and investigate. I don't question if we have shared values.

It is not just when the kids go into the actual house that there is a problem. Kids bring their point of view and their exposures to school. If a child's mom is wearing sandals and shorts at home, then perhaps this child will be disrespectful about the school uniform. The house the child comes from is important.

↑ Raisin ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 8:22 am

Squishy wrote:

the FATHER not the mother is wearing shorts and sandals. I read that a few times till it was clear.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 9:03 am

amother wrote:

We are probably putting our child into Imrei Shefer this year. My dh asked Rabbi Melber outright, will you reprimand me or make any problems for me because I often wear shorts and sandals in the summer? The answer was a most definite no. It's not their focus. They want the new generation of Chassidish kids to be educated well, in both Jewish and secular studies. That's all.

I also understood the shorts/sandals to be her husband. And if that is what he wears, so be it, its not against halacha. I think that especially in this generation it is important to raise our kids with a clear understanding of what is halacha, and what is not. Some people feel choked by overly strict rules that do not make sense to them, and knowing what is halacha and what not, helps them find a medium, so that they can serve Hashem and still be comfortable. I wonder how many who are OTD could have found a comfortable way to serve Hashem if they didn't feel that it was all or nothing.
If anyone does not agree with this, then it is perfectly fine for them to stay in the frummer and frummer and frummer environment. But it does not work for everyone.

It is so refreshing to see that there is a chassidish institution that has finally got it right. They provide a choice for parents, which is you can stay who you are, (of course within halacha and an acceptable framework) and still educate your children properly. All this while not being an outcast. I think they should be applauded!

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 9:14 am

About the shorts n sandals thing - I know she meant it as the father. But if the woman wears shorts, I assume she wouldn't send to a very chassidish school. And you know what? She can still send to a chassidish school and not go against any rule. Because all they say about the mothers is - don't drive, wear a short wig, and things similar to that.

Another thing - this whole internet commotion did not solve the problem. It just made people lie, and too many parents I know now have two cellphones - a kosher and non kosher one. Is that really what I want my kids to see??? If most people these days have smartphones, face it. Instead of making rules that parents won't follow, you can respectfully ask that they keep their children away from the Internet.

And about sending kids to their friends' homes - no I won't feel any more comfortable sending them to these "frum chassidishe" homes. If I send them there they might not be "exposed" to a long wig or trimmed beard or iPhone, but they can get exposed to molestation or abuse by fathers with long beards, white shirts and six-slice black kippas. A home isn't "safer" just because they signed some rules (which they probably don't follow). These nitty-gritty rules don't make anyone better.

But yes, I do believe that a school can have rules. If it's a chassidish school, they'll want it to stay chassidish. But to enforce stupid rules and blame it on "Chassidus"??

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 9:15 am

amother wrote:

👍

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 9:19 am

amother wrote:

There are enough people out there kh to make schools for the different types. You can't just dress the way you want and haveTVs and internet and scream the chassidishe school rejected us

OP here.
Maybe where you live. In Monsey there is not such a big variety. And it's not like I'm sending to schools like Satmar or Bobov etc. I am looking into those places that were in the beginning more lenient. And hey, I might not even get rejected by the ultra frum chassidish places. Because on the outside, you can't quite tell. It's just the way I feel about those places that's driving me away. And I don't want my kids growing up with the hypocrisy.

happybeingamom

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 9:39 am

Squishy wrote:

You are being naive. Please do not rely on the schools to vet a home/family. A school is not a parent, it is the responsibility of parents to make sure their children are in an environment that is safe and appropriate.

About your second point. If the mechanchim in the past would only take children from homes that they approve of the hashkafa. Orthodox Jewery would look a lot different today and not for the better. We would have a world of Am Haretzim and no where near the level of learning and keeping halacha that we have today.

We must stop throwing away children because we don't like something the parents do. Does anyone want to be punished for the "so called sins" of their parents?

↑ 33055 ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:07 am

amother wrote:

Really?? Do you honestly believe that the parents don't have Internet if they signed??? Be realistic. Not only do they have Internet like the rest of the population, but now they've been made into liars as well.

(OP)

I don't care if the parents watch TV in their bedroom. I care if my child goes to someone's house and they are exposed to things in a TV or the Internet that I don't approve of. Whether or not the parents are hypocrites is not my concern. BTW I refuse to sign the requisite piece of paper that I don't have Internet. I don't believe it is my job to watch anyone else's hypocrisy.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:15 am

Squishy wrote:

BTW I refuse to sign the requisite piece of paper that I don't have Internet.

Then I guess you know, for whatever reason, that your kids are secure in their schools no matter what you do. And this was one of my issues. The people who know that the school will "have to" accept them, don't follow - oftentimes openly. And then there's those few families who are at the mercy of the schools, who end up lying. So if a rule is important enough to deny children education, it should be strong enough to kick out families who have the power (whether money, chassidus, family status etc).

↑ mandr ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:17 am

amother wrote:

Sorry to tell you but people with your mind set are a part of the problem, what I hear you saying is that if your kid's mossad would not tell you to cover your hear and wear long sleeves and to not watch tv, you wouldn't know how to behave? Are people animals that without force would be lost? Where is your respect for a fellow human being? I'm a delighted family member of Imrei Shefer; the parent body is very respectful, no young bummy type at all, no tv, etc. and yes, no stupid rules about slices of kippah etc, and guess what, the parent body knows how to behave better than in schools with books of rules, and hiding & lying, signing false documents about internet. Let's face it: you have on this very blog many parents who signed for their kid's school that they don't have internet at all (and they don't even know what it is. lol)

When schools put forth rules about dress for parents, they aren't doing it because they assume parents have zero idea how to dress. It's just another way of saying "we want our parent body to be of this kind of hashkafa and tznius style" that's all. And why are you comparing people to animals?

Rules also deter people from doing something. We have a rule for no internet. It doesn't mean that no parent will be using the internet and that no homes will have internet. But if someone was contemplating installing it in their home, they would think twice. And that's what they want. They know it won't be an internet-free parent body because that's impossible to achieve. And yes, I'm happy when I see a school with rules. Not because I think I'm an animal without them (look who's got lots of respect for another human being!), but because I know people will at least try to keep them, and that's enough for me. When I see a school with no rules for internet I'd be scared to send my kid home to anyone's house because why should the parents even bother keeping internet out if there's a blanket ok?

In my opinion, when there are no rules, it means you don't care. You don't care what the parents act like. You don't care how the children turn out. Just let me get my students and run this school.

↑ Maya ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:21 am

mandr wrote:

In my opinion, when there are no rules, it means you don't care. You don't care what the parents act like. You don't care how the children turn out. Just let me get my students and run this school.

No. It just means that we value things that are more important to us than the length of a woman's wig or a man's beard. Simple as that.

It's also our belief that children can turn out better when emphasis is put on love for Yiddishkeit and its beauty, as opposed to them being obsessed with the kind of kappel they can or can't wear.

Last edited by Maya on Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ mandr ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:23 am

Maya wrote:

Sounds great in theory but I don't see any more love for yiddishkeit in the children or parents of such schools versus those from schools with rules, sorry.

"we value things that are more important to us than the length of a woman's wig or a man's beard"
What things?

↑ Maya ↓

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:25 am

mandr wrote:

Perhaps you don't know enough of such children.

We value things like acceptance, tolerance, education and knowledge. I know, it's a foreign concept which may be difficult for Chassidim to grasp. I don't blame you for not understanding.