AMA I am anti-babysitter and CIO

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:40 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

Please share ideas of jobs where this can work. Give concrete examples of a job that can be done from home.
My degree for my job was over 100k. I have student loans to pay back. How do you expect me to be a SAHM and make money to pay back my loans?

Many service jobs pay well and can be done at odd hours - wigs, sewing, baking, decorating, etc. Also many freelance jobs- writing, bookkeeping, marketing etc.

Are you making enough money with your $100k degree so that your husband can stay home with your babies until they are 2?

For the record, and I know this isn’t an option for everyone, but my husband went to a much lower ranked school so we wouldn’t have a student loans.

amother

Navy

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

It would be because I wouldn’t feel that our families shared the same values or that their children were necessarily raised with the values we would like them to have.

Just like every parent with kids in shidduchim tries to find families that share their general values.

Ahhh, so it boils down to values (I.e. judgment), not that there would be anything actually wrong with these poor, neglected, abused children.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:41 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Were you considering childcare for your first, and your DH asked you not to?

No. I was working more than full time in a very lucrative profession when I had my first. I informed my husband that I would not be going back to work until my baby was 2. He was not too happy initially.

For the record I did/do work from home and bring in $20-$45k depending on the year.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:43 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

Support meaning what?

I think we are coming from two different worlds. My husband does not make enough for me to not work. Like I mentioned, no prior education at all. His first job was a month after sheva brachos when he left kollel. We tried to make kollel work and it didnt because we needed to afford groceries.

I really dont mean to be nitpicky, but many people are not giving actual helpful advice as to how to make being a SAHM work in our day and age. its nice to say we're abusive monsters, but many of us work because we have no choice.

We come from the same world. My husband got literally zero English education after 8th grade, and minimally before that. He was even in kollel for a year.

There will always be some for whom there will be no choice, and I do have sympathy for them and their babies, if they have truly exhausted all other options.

amother

Geranium

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:43 pm

amother OP wrote:

Oh so you didn't plan this staying home before you got married? If you did why didn't you discuss this with your husband beforehand?

amother

Ballota

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:44 pm

This post is just hurtful. Can we have it locked?
OP you are more than entitled to your opinion and do what works best for your family.
But to tell parents, many of who work with no option, that you feel for their precious children? Common. There is no need for that. This thread is only going to cause hurt. 8/10 working parents are not doing it because they want to. And even if they do need some space and a way to keep stimulated intellectually, you should feel horrible that you are making them out to be neglectful. Everyone does what works best for them , including you. But to compare working to neglect - iyh you should never know what real neglect is. So so offensive

amother

Navy

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:44 pm

amother OP wrote:

Woah..... you're telling us that we're abusive and neglectful for using babysitters but you willingly chose to send your kids out at the age of two?

amother

Cappuccino

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:44 pm

amother OP wrote:

My husband doesnt make enough for me not to work OP. And any of the above jobs you mentioned do not pay enough to supplement my DHs salary each month.

I am NOT making enough with my 100k degree unfortunately. I do not want to ID myself and say my career but there are have been plenty of threads about my field and why it is not worthwhile anymore. When I went into the field I was told how much it makes, but not for a frum family. It was not an option to go to a lower ranked school. I dont care about school names. I would have gone to a dump of a masters program to get my degree. This is how much my degree goes for.

Ema of 5

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

If for some reason they husband truly can’t make enough, there are ways for a mother to earn money while keeping her baby home with her. Certain jobs can be done from home at odd hours and pay well by the hour. [b]She can also become a babysitter and keep her baby with her.1/b]

That’s a bit hypocritical don’t you think? She can stay home and “be a good mom” while other moms send their kids to her and are “bad moms”?

amother

Cappuccino

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

We come from the same world. My husband got literally zero English education after 8th grade, and minimally before that.

There will always be some for whom there will be no choice, and I do have sympathy for them and their babies, if they have truly exhausted all other options.

It doesnt seem like we come from the same world though. Most of the women in my family and my world marry men who start off in kollel and dont come from rich homes. So unless a man is welcomed into a family business, or given money to start a business, or has financial help from somewhere- it doesn't seem like he will be making enough in the begininng to support a SAHM. Or maybe its just my familys luck that my dh doesn't make a lot.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:47 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Everything is in Hashems hands, not just shidduchim. Parnasa is in hashems hands too. If it is so important to you not to send out to a baby sitter, then it should be equally important to you to find out this information about potential shidduchim for your children.
How many children do you have? Were you a stay at home mom since day 1? How would you react if your daughter or daughter in law sent to a baby sitter other than family?

Currently I have 3 children BH. I quit my job when I had my first. If my daughter or DIL was sending an infant to a babysitter I would volunteer to watch the baby, if they allowed me.

amother

DarkViolet

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

I am fortunate but I am also proactive. Prioritizing having a stay-at-home parent is more of a choice than woman like to pretend.

Did you look for a husband who would support his family once children were born? Did you ever put effort into learning a skill that could you earn you money from home and that you could do a few hours a day with young children around? Did you encrourage your husband to obtain skills or a diploma that would allow them to be a high earner? Did you give up on some “necessities” so that you don’t have to send out your infant?

It’s not just luck that allows me to be a SAHM and it’s insulting to insinuate that.

Everyone had the choice to at least try to make it work. Few do.

Don't have to time to read all the responses. What skills or diploma does your dh have that enables him to be a high earner? Did having "connections" allow him to make 300K? Because that is a very high salary. What would you have done if despite his best efforts he only made half that amount?
Your post reeks of ego. "I am also proactive"! Maybe you never heard of rabos machshavos b'leiv ish. Not everything is in our hands. Lots of people are proactive and they don't make 300K or they have insane expenses (medical for example) which makes even that high amount not enough.
Oh. And I have always been a SAHM and my dh makes far less than yours.

I don't believe you answered my question that I bolded. If your husband, despite his best efforts was unable to make anywhere near what he was making right now and you would have to live on tzedaka to "survive" what would you do? You have yet to pay one high school tuition or for one bar-mitzvah. It's easy to be self righteous when you have a relatively small family and you havent had expenses such as high school and post high school education and weddings. Come back in 15 years and we'll revisit this issue.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:47 pm

amother Geranium wrote:

Yes to all those.
Work from home jobs are not easy to come by.
Ratios usually are around 1:3. People send out babies when they have to depending on maternity leave. And those who can stay longer and have to find a new job after do.

A 1:3 ratio with a competent babysitter can sometimes be ok for children at least a few months old.

amother

Daphne

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

You are presenting false assumptions. In what world does a father working to support his children automatically equal “not a house of Torah”? You say my post is painful to working mothers but think about how you just degraded millions of ehrlich frum families. Do you really think that in past generations no one raised Torah families because virtually all men worked? You seem to be in denial because you desperate to rationalize your decision.

My children are raised in house of Torah AND they are not send to babysitters at 6 weeks old.

I sincerely believe that choosing to send a 6 week old infant to a babysitter so that your husband can stay in kollel is neglectful.

If you are still confident enough in your decision then you be able to easily disregard my opinion.

You are completely twisting what I said. I was giving an example of decisions not being black and white. Who did I degrade? I was giving a personal example of a decision between two important things.

Please note, I also said I keep my kids home until they're a year. I was not fighting my own battle but I really feel you have hurt other people.

I am perfectly confident and absolutely think that your opinion is way too black and white without nuancing.

I would suggest that you should apply this to yourself. Why are you so anti? Why are you criticizing other people's decisions?

It also seems to me that you have no clue what it means to struggle financially. Before your child was born you had a lucrative career. Now your husband has one. You simply have no idea how privileged you are to be able to get up on your hobby horse like this.

And again, I'm not fighting my battles because I also prioritize keeping my kids home. I am fighting for all those people who are feeling not only that they would love to be in your position but that you are looking down on them for not being able to do it, somehow blaming them for not making it enough of a priority.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:52 pm

amother OP wrote:

I believe the mainstream frum trend of sending infants to babysitters and also employing cry it out sleep training at a young age is borderline abusive.

AMA

Same. We are broke just paying the bills with debt but I would never send my kids out. Husband works to pay the bills and we manage. Nothing is more important to me than being home with my babies. And CIO is definitely abusive in my eyes.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:52 pm

amother OP wrote:

Cappuccino I’m not sure if it was you who reported my response but I meant my question about if your salary allows you husband to be a SAHP parent sincerely. I wasn’t trying to insult you. I’m genuinely curious.