Is everyone else also just winging it?

amother

Brass

Wed, May 22 2024, 9:44 am

My oldest is 24 and because every family is different and every parent is different every child is different in a sense everyone is winging it. Here are some ground rules I’ve established
1 I don’t lie to you you don’t lie to me
2 a parent does not need to answer for every second of every day
3. Commands and requests are diff things. The first is non negotiable, the second can be discussed
4. I treat you as adult as you behave
5. Difficult conversations are done in the car in the dark so said child does not feel exposed
I think that’s a good start
Biggest mistake I made was over estimating a child’s maturity

amother

Wed, May 22 2024, 10:01 am

amother Alyssum wrote:

I do think your insecurities are getting in the way of confident parenting. Confident doesn't have to be strict and rigid, but you have to stop listening to what "everyone's doing" and tune in to yourself. You have the answers inside of you. What are you comfortable with from a safety point of view? What do you think about the financial aspect? What about from a chinuch point of view? Listen to what your gut tells you and let that inform your decisions.

You are very worried about her social and emotional health to the possible detriment of other factors. Because you didn't have these issues as a teen, you are stuck on getting it right and therefore placing undue emphasis on what her friend's are doing. (I'll add that your DD seems to have picked up on your vulnerabilities by mentioning what everyone does and what this friend or that friend does to validate her position.)

I'm not saying not to listen to what your DD is saying about what's normal and what's socially off and what her friends are doing, but you need to strengthen yourself and be the parent she can rely on. It's also ok to say I'm not really ok with this, but I will let you do this now one time and see how it goes. Or you are ok with it but then it turns out differently and so you change your mind. You don't have to worry about setting a precedent that you give x amount of money and only allow y amount of stores. Tell her this first time is an experiment for you to see how much you can trust her and her friends and that you reserve the right to do things differently next time.

Also, it's a good time for a discussion that even though you trust her individually, you understand that friends can pressure even a good kid to do/buy/go stuff she normally wouldn't. Like they all get caught up in an idea without stopping to think quietly if this is safe/appropriate, etc. Validate the struggle but at the same time, you as the parent cannot allow it to happen, so you need to put in safeguards. Being open about your concerns in advance, even if you let her go, will help her have that little voice in her head reminding her of her conscience.

This is good advice and I appreciate it.

I will say that I did just say a hard no to another harebrained scheme of theirs that had her in tears crying that she's the only one left out and I'm the only mother that doesn't let etc etc so I would like to make this work.

I am insecure about her place socially because of my own history, and because she herself has struggled in the past. But there's also a very real issue of not knowing what the norms are. I need to know what the normal range is to find my individual comfort level. I don't want to be way out of range, and I really don't know what that range is.

amother

Alyssum

Wed, May 22 2024, 10:21 am

amother OP wrote:

Sometimes you have to be the mean mother who says no twice in a row, can you imagine?! Depends on the ideas they come up with. If too many of their ideas don't sit well with you, it's time for a discussion of being the mature one in her group of friends or, dare I say, find friends who are more on her wavelength.

Never parent from a place of fear and insecurity. It doesn't lead to good places. I totally understand your needing to know what's normal, but also, the main point in my previous post was that YOU know what's normal. Tune into yourself. Sit quietly with your feelings and thoughts and ask yourself, how much money do you trust a 12 year old with? From a chinuch, safety, and financial point of view. That's your answer, regardless of what the other mothers are coming up with.

Feel free to explain yourself to your DD (for ex: I am giving you 20 because my guess is you'll spend 12 on food and I want you to have a little extra for shmuntzes that you might see OR I want to give you 20 but I'll give you 30 just this time so that you're not stuck, but depending on how you spend it, I will see how much to give you another time) or not.

But no amount is "normal", everyone does as they see fit. Let her give you feedback on how it went and THAT will inform your decision. You need to decide things based on your own DD, your comfort level, and doesn't really matter what others are doing.

I have no issue telling my own teens "Their mother decides what's good for them, and I decide what's good for you." Sometimes we change our mind based on what the teen says, but not based on what "everyone does" because they know to use that as a bargaining chip and it feeds our insecurities as parents that we are not doing right by our child. But I also can tell my child "I thought about what you said and I see how important it is to you, so even though I would prefer x, I will let y, if you z." Or "I saw how much it bothered you, so I still think x, but let's try y and see it how goes." There are no hard and fast rules about these things, other than you should be making the decisions as a parent and not as a result of the same peer pressure she's living with.

Lemonade 2323

Wed, May 22 2024, 11:54 am

amother OP wrote:

She asked them and they said not their own money.

One kid is the oldest like dd but her mother has single sisters still, and the other has 1 sister 2 years above her and she's definitely the one with the hasagos Wink

and it seems also the more relaxed parents? She keeps telling dd that dd's mother must not be in the know because dd is the oldest. She's also the one who said she's bringing 50 dollars or maybe a credit card because maybe she'll buy herself shoes she doesn't know and probably her mother will just say how much do you need and give her whatever amount she thinks she needs. Is this friend stringing dd along? No, not a wealthy family at all to the best of my knowledge.

So here's another question: if veteran parents tend to get more relaxed as time goes on, is there any purpose in being more strict to begin with? Will I look back in 5 years and think what a waste of energy to argue over 5 or 10 [extra] dollars, it's a blip in the grand scheme of things?

That's the million dollar question OP! My 9th kid is approaching teenage hood and I still don't have the answer to your question. Am I more relaxed with my younger kids? Definitely. But I still don't think I should've been relaxed with the older ones just because 'it'll happen anyway'.

The oldest kids in a family are by definition different to the younger ones, chinuch is by nature different, but you still have to do what makes sense at the time. Also, oldest and youngest kids are sometimes a generation apart when it comes to so many things.

My oldest is coming up to 30, whereas my youngest is only 10. I was much stricter with my older kids when it came to 'things', but they had more fun things, like outings and baking sessions because I had a bunch of kids to entertain.

Interestingly, my older kids bring up their own kids similar to what I did with them, like decent bed-time, nash for Shabbos etc...so definitely more to do with position in the family then anything else. I'm way more relaxed about bed-time and treats etc with the younger set.

OP if you want to PM me with specifics, maybe I can help you. I'm no expert on bringing up kids, I often feel like I'm winging it, but if experience counts for anything....

amother

Iris

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:01 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

My (kind of poor) parents would actually send me with a credit card but with an approximate number of how much I could spend. I also knew that if I felt like I "needed" to spend more I could. I think it was good for me. I learned self control, not swiping just because I felt like it, and it wasn't embarrassing to spend less if I had a credit card vs if I had $8 in cash and everyone else had $50.

I was a super responsible oldest girl who probably knew too much about my parents finances though! (Don't worry about me - I didn't have any insecurities about it, my father was a Rebbi and I was proud).

Could be if the peer pressure is too strong or she won't have self control this plan would backfire.

Not all kids are so responsible though.

amother

Burlywood

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:13 pm

I actually think the "preteen- early teen" years (11-14) are the most difficult. They think they are so mature but they are really still babies. That's the only stage I wish I could sleep through lol!!!
They don't become real teenagers until about 15yo (10th grade) and it's def challenging but also soooo much fun!!!! They push limits and kvetch and sometimes skew reality to their vision, but they are also full of maturing personality, deep-thinking, and a little wacky. I love my teens and I love spending time with them!!!

amother

Iris

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:14 pm

As a mom of a few teens BH (one of which is giving us more than a run for our money), here are my two cents:

1. The relationship is the most important thing. Spend time with your teen, take her/him out for ice cream, shmooze, etc.

2. Start treating them more like an adult. Obviously not the day they turn 12 but gradually more and more as they go through the teen years.
With young children, you are the "Sage on the stage". With teens, you become the "Guide on the side".
Give suggestions instead of dictating.
Example:
To my 8 year old, I say "Go take a shower now".
To my 13 year old, I say "When would you like to take your shower so you can still get to sleep at a decent time"?
To my 15 year old, I don't say anything. Or I might say "Let me know when you're out of the shower because I want to shower next".

3. It's ok to set limits, but as they get older, make sure it's not coming out in a childish way.

4. There are good books/shiurim. I heard the book "Unripe Angels" is good, there are others too.

5. So many new situations come up which are very individual and can be hard to navigate. Good to have someone to ask.

6. Daven, daven, and daven. And then daven some more!!!