Peach Magazine - Don't force your ideas on everyone else

MaBelleVie

Mon, May 05 2014, 1:55 pm

Think1st wrote:

if he used the $ for house car motorcycle etc, where did he have $ to do a real study ????

If he fabricated studies, he would be wanted for those charges as well. Since the only thing he is wanted for is money laundering and similar, there's absolutely no reason to assume the studies themselves were problematic. You do realize that government grants don't cover studies in an itemized manner down to the last penny right? Researchers have some discretion in terms of how they allocate grant funds.

Finally, I'm sure you're aware that the these studies have many many people involved who would know if shady stuff was going on in the research department. It's not like he's running the show solo.

amother

Mon, May 05 2014, 1:56 pm

I live in Lakewood. Last week I took my baby for her well check up and her shots. Before they were given, the Dr. (Dr. Braverman, at Dr. Shanik's office) clearly explained to me which shots she was getting, and what the possible side effects were for each. He explained that she would run (if I remember correctly) a 5% risk of fever for the next 24-48 hours due to one specific shot, and her thigh would be red and sore due to another specific shot. He asked if I had any questions before the shots were given.
That night she ran a fever. That was it. He told me to treat it with Tylenol, and that's what I did. By the next morning she was back to herself, happy and healthy.
Now that was really scary. So let's use fever as a scare tactic and never give shots again.
(Anon because of the identifying details)

5*Mom

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:01 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

If he fabricated studies, he would be wanted for those charges as well. Since the only thing he is wanted for is money laundering and similar, there's absolutely no reason to assume the studies themselves were problematic. ... I'm sure you're aware that the these studies have many many people involved. It's not like he's running the show solo.

This.

chaiz

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:01 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

You do know that wakefield lost his license to practice medicine? And that Lancet retracted the study?

5*Mom

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:04 pm

amother wrote:

Those are the most common and least harmful side effects but they are not the only ones listed in the PI and you were not given a complete risk profile. I'm not saying your decision would have or should have been different, but I am saying that you only know what you were told and you don't know what you don't know. There are other considerations.

amother

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:14 pm

5*Mom wrote:

I wrote about the side effects my baby experienced, in response to the amother who was so horrified when her children ran fevers as a result of shots. My doctor did tell me about other side effects, and he also asked me at the end if I had any other questions, which I didn't, because I knew he had informed me about the most common side effects. Do you ask your doctor to read you the entire list of possible side effects every time he prescribed Amoxicillin? I didn't think so.

(In fact, the last time I took my baby for shots he told me that someone who is immuno-compromised should not change the baby because some of the antibodies could come out in her urine. When I told him that I was just post-surgery he told me it's fine, I could still change her, but if I want to be really careful I could have someone else do it. So yes, he is very thorough.)

chaiz

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:16 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Yeah. And? I'm not denying that studies can be faulty or worse... I'm saying that a researcher who is wanted for money laundering is not necessarily someone who fabricated a study.

Right. I got confused between the studies. Smile

Anyways from the little I saw he was part of studies showing no connection between autism and MMR and there are those who are alleging that he fabricated those studies. That is in addition to the allegations of fraud and money laundering.

5*Mom

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:18 pm

amother wrote:

Do you ask your doctor to read you the entire list of possible side effects every time he prescribed Amoxicillin? I didn't think so.

I most definitely do read the entire PI before giving or taking any medication, and if it is not completely obvious to me why the benefits outweigh the risks I will discuss it in detail with my doctor.

Think1st

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:21 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Yeah. And? I'm not denying that studies can be faulty or worse... I'm saying that a researcher who is wanted for money laundering is not necessarily someone who fabricated a study.

Dr (Chaim) Arthur Krigsman of NY replicated Wakefield's study for a congressional study

This 200 page UN report shows USA, CANADA, Australia highest vaccine Scheule
& infant death rate (6 per 1000) in DEVELOPED world (don't confuse with 3rd world states)

Iceland Sweden Singapore Japan 1/4 of the US vaccines given infant death rate 2 per 1,000

shttp://www.childinfo.org/files/immunization_summary_en.pdf

Tokyo Japan is more polluted than Australia

Allfromabove

Mon, May 05 2014, 2:41 pm

I posted a little earlier here that we looked into this whole thing pretty thoroughly a few years back.

that magazine shows very strong arguments against many of the pro-vax comments being said here.

the magazine says that during outbreaks close to 90% of diseased individuals have been vaccinated 3 times and we found that out on our own close to 3 years ago. why don't the vaccines protect ?

It appears we haven't been reading the data, just talking.

another link to the vid I posted earlier, from a doctor who spent 20 years conventional PRO-VACCINE and then SWITCHED to ANTI-VACCINE and he explains why in detail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh4bGWvFcsE

He is a unique individual because he is risking his license by talking, and that is something most doctors will never do, and that is why we know so little about what may very well be the reality!!
He also has a practice right here in NYC.

Will some of us PLEASE begin to look into this now a little and not just talk..

There are also many sources of info outside of government circles. government sites say there are no reactions other than redness or mild swelling etc. when the insert clearly says otherwise!
whoever wishes may watch the vid in the link here and let me know if you still feel the same way. will someone please watch it instead of just talking negative things

5*Mom

Mon, May 05 2014, 3:08 pm

life is bliss wrote:

It appears we haven't been reading the data, just talking.

whoever wishes may watch the vid in the link here and let me know if you still feel the same way. will someone please watch it instead of just talking negative things

I didn't watch it and I don't plan to. Your video is not scientific data.

I am all in favor of research and education and information and I wouldn't spend any time on Mercola.

amother

Mon, May 05 2014, 3:08 pm

Think1st wrote:

The magazine says there was no autism in china until 1999 and that was when the U.S. began supplying china with vaccines and by 2005 china had 1.8 million cases of autism. If true, that obviously has nothing to do with diagnostic procedures changing over the years, it happened very abruptly.
I have never verified that myself but what I did verify is that right here in the U.S. there is not a single case of autism to be found among amish-born and bred children.
That should say something.

As far as shanik blaming reproductive failure on measles I would point out that autism today is 1 in 50 and that number comes from universally recognized sources that no one can argue with.

autistic people CAN reproduce, but will NOT be doing so due to their autism. Which is worse?
I don't believe shanik has more than 1-2 such measles-effected cases in his entire practice.

We know someone who had a normal baby till 18 months of age when the baby received a vaccine shot(not sure which one it was sorry) the child's been autistic ever since and his care ran his parents $50,000- a year cuz he needed a shadow.

Also Reb Shmuel kaminetzky, Reb Malkiel Kotler and Reb Elya Ber Vachtfogel are all anti-Vaccine and they aren't coming from nowhere. one of the above actually has an autistic 20something year old who was a normal child for a number of years until it "happened" following a vaccine and he says plainly it was from the vaccine.

amother

Mon, May 05 2014, 3:19 pm

Think1st wrote:

The higher infant mortality rate in the US is directly attributable to the greater number of pre-term births. If the number or pre-term births in the US were similar to that in other industrialized countries, the infant mortality rate would decrease by 1/3, and would approximate that of Sweden.

Each of the countries that you cite has one thing that the US doesn't have -- universal health care. If you want the infant mortality rate to drop in the US, I suggest that ensuring that all women have access to excellent pre-natal care is where you want to start.

amother

Mon, May 05 2014, 3:23 pm

For those of you that are pro vaccines. let me ask you- why would anyone makeup all those stuff against vaccines? What are the PEACH editors getting out of it? no one is getting any money or anything out of it.
The Dr's , government, pharmacys... they make loads of money on those vaccines therefore they push it. I'm not saying if you should or shouldn't give but do your research as the magazine says. they're not getting anything out of it they spent on it...

Think1st

Mon, May 05 2014, 3:29 pm

Some more MD's who made a u turn & r now Anti- vaccine

http://drsuzanne.net/dr-suzann.....tion/

http://www.raphaelkellmanmd.com/ frum in NYC

http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

http://www.ageofautism.com/201......html

Just to be balanced on the Chasidik side. the 2 brothers Toldos Aharon & Avrum Yitzchok are leaning toward the anti vaccine side So is Nirebarter Rav

I asked Rav Shimon Galey he responded My younger kids are also unactivated Don't worry they will be healthier without it