Showing more than a tefach of hair

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Forum -> Fashion and Beauty -> Sheitels & Tichels

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amother

Green

Wed, Feb 05 2020, 7:53 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

I heard directly from a gadol in person, that a woman who covers less than a tefach might as well not cover at all. If you care about doing the right thing, then do so. Obviously it’s bothering you because your yetser Tov is trying to convince you to do what you know is right. Hearing from other people who also do wrong, why they did it-won’t help you. Two wrongs won’t ever make a right.

it’s really hard to cover LESS than a tefach. A tefach isn’t that large an area at all. I don’t know anyone who does that. (Unless you meant to say uncovers less than a tefach?)

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 2:05 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Theoretically it shouldn't be a problem, but on some circles wouldn't it make a big statement?

In the MO world? I dont think so. Thats the point, in so many MO community, any covering or non covering goes. Its not a big deal.

amother

↑ Ecru

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 2:10 am

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

Just like for some people, being told all the hilchos Shabbos will make them not want to keep any of it. That’s irrelevant. Halacha is halacha.

No, if there's any comparison, it's like telling them that if they use a grama on Shabbos, they might as well not keep Shabbos at all.

↑ saw50st8

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 6:58 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Theoretically it shouldn't be a problem, but on some circles wouldn't it make a big statement?

What big statement are you making?

MO communities tend to have very diverse range of opinions. I have very close friends who cover every strand of hair all the time to people who don't even cover in the sanctuary of a shul. It's all personal.

↑ PinkFridge

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 8:33 am

So deciding to cover more wouldn't telegraph, oh, and I'm not doing xyz anymore? I'm not trying to flame, just trying to understand and, I hope, help OP.

↑ lcraighten ↓

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 12:35 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

Where did you get your semicha? If you don’t have any, you really should speak against a gadol as if you know better

I'm sorry that I offended you. I don't believe that gedolim are perfect and that everything they say is 100% applicable to my life. I don't need smicha, I am a responsible adult that can make her own decisions within the context of Torah. עשה לך רב does not mean that every person that is recognized as a Rav is my Rav.

Although what this gadol (still don't even know who he is) said seems to work for you, it is detrimental to many women who don't take an "all or nothing" approach. Wonderful that you found something that works for you, trying to force it down everyone's throat with the claim that, " A gadol said it so it's canon" is not appropriate nor in my eyes acceptable.

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 12:36 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

it’s really hard to cover LESS than a tefach. A tefach isn’t that large an area at all. I don’t know anyone who does that. (Unless you meant to say uncovers less than a tefach?)

No, he said uncovering more than a tefach is just the same as taking off your sheitel altogether.

amother

↑ Smokey

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 12:38 pm

lcraighten wrote:

Good, so you can make your own decisions as you said, but that doesn’t make ithalachically permissible and denying Daas Torah doesn’t mean it’s not true. Telling others your opinion as if it’s allowed Is very dangerous and their sins will be accountable to you

↑ lcraighten

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 12:49 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

Halachically Permissible? Where did I say a person should uncover their hair? I am simply not on the same page with people who say that doing some is like doing nothing. There are definitley mitzvos where this makes sense (I.e. Lighting a menorah), but to say that "Oh, I turned on the light on shabbos so I might as well turn on the TV too" is not a mindset that is helpful. In this case to say, "Oh I have trouble covering every part of my hair, so I'll just not cover it at all" is not something that I helps women grow and develop their yiddishkeit.

It's wonderful that this gadol's outlook makes sense to you, it does not to me. Judaism does not espouse blind faith in gedolim, if I were at that speech, I would have approached him afterward with just these questions. Perhaps he would have had an answer that would make sense, but I have not heard one at all.

amother

↑ Cerise

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 12:59 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

I would get off this forum and put it under a limited user MO forum as some people,and we know who they are, as soon as they get bored with the shell thread, that wearing one in your house is going to cause incest and your children to go OTD and fail out of Yeshiva, are going to rip into you, that even a tefach exposed in the shower is sending you straight to gehenem.

You. Were. So. Right.

amother

↑ Red

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 1:07 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

You. Were. So. Right.

I have very few talents in life- I apply makeup like a monkey, my spelling is atrocious, I cannot sing (BH-no taiva for kol isha (but I do speak🤷‍♀️), and if I were to dance- you would probably think someone was having a seizure, but this, this I can predict.

amother

Honeysuckle

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 11:01 pm

My personal experience is that for most women it is not an easy thing to cover the hair. (Even if their hair is not so pretty).

Hair is very personal and a person can feel like their identity is very intertwined with their hair (which is why hair loss for whatever reason can be traumatic).

Speaking to friends of mine (who are honest about it) most found it difficult at first to cover their hair, although we all do cover. It does get easier with time.

A beautiful explanation which really helped me is: when the kallah is under the chuppa the shechina rests on her face.
That’s one explanation of why the chosson covers the kallah’s face. Just like Moshe Rabbeinu covered his face when it shone with the shechina.

After the chuppa the veil is lifted over the kallah’s hair. Now the kedusha of the shechina moves up onto her hair and remains there. It never leaves. Her hair becomes holy from then on.

So we cover the hair for the same reason we cover a Sefer Torah.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 02 2021, 5:17 am; edited 1 time in total

naturalmom5

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 11:17 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Hi!

So I grew up "yeshivish", but I think we secretly weren't all that yeshivish. We saw movies occasionally and weren't wearing tights or anything, but we attended yeshivish schools and my mother always covered her hair. All of it.

When I got married, I assumed I would too, but somehow when it came down to it, I couldn't bear to do so. So I started pushing boundaries. First, taking out all my hair in the front of my wigs, so it didn't look so wiggy. Then, I started also wearing a triangulated bandana as a mock "tichel" to work and around. Then a baseball cap with my hair down. At times, I just disregarded that, too.

I knew it wasn't great, and my parents weren't super pleased, but they figured it was between me and my husband. And he was understanding.

I designated shul as a Must-Shaitel zone, although with hair out. What changed is that I moved somewhere ultra-frum where it wasn't accepted to do these kinds of things. And then one day I really needed Hashem's help on a difficult matter, and I told Him that my korban is my hair, and I will cover it, even downstairs in my house. So now I'm careful to do so, and it was really hard for me, but baruch Hashem I was helped in that particular matter.

It might be your age. I don't judge you at all - it's hard to be newly married and your hair is such a part of our identity. The older I get, the more I realize I actually look loads better in a wig, so that helps too! Your hair thins, you don't have to get it highlighted as often, and you know what? I look stupid in a baseball hat and a bandana! Lol.

Life is a journey. Small steps gets you to your destination. I wish you luck!

Life is a journey... When I became frum I couldnt wait to get married and get a shaitel and was so in awe of it..

40 very difficult years later, I will take OOT communities with MO women who only wear hats to shul but are very sincere decent ladies over places where middos , derech eretz, bain odom lchaveiro, and compassion goes into the garbage can, BUT they cover their hair with every possible chumra

Angel

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 11:49 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

I would also take kind ppl over anything. Though in every com u have all kind.
U can find women without hair covering who are down right nasty.

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