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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
Plonis
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 Sat, Jan 16 2010, 8:23 pm
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Probably because it's a really ANNOYING disease that they figure people would rather have a vax for. My father didnt take the meds they gave us and had a "whooping" like cough for upwards of 6 months (it can last for a year, reviving itself whenever you get a cold). I'm curious now that I'm older what that medication was and why they dont just prescribe that instead of vaccinating against - maybe you need to take it when first exposed, before you have sypmtoms?
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GAMZu
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 1:17 am
Then it should be optional and not mandatory in order to attend school.
Now, I'm asking this question again, and maybe the pro vaxers can answer.
Why aren't all the vaccines given to newborns in the hospital?
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gryp
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 9:25 am
Because there's too much stuff in them for anyone (much less a newborn) to handle all at once. Although I did hear a while ago that they're working on a super-vax for newborns.
(In the hospital I gave birth in Hep B is only given to babies clearly at risk, ie. because of the mother. Hospital policy.)
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GAMZu
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 9:53 am
| GR wrote: | Because there's too much stuff in them for anyone (much less a newborn) to handle all at once. Although I did hear a while ago that they're working on a super-vax for newborns.
(In the hospital I gave birth in Hep B is only given to babies clearly at risk, ie. because of the mother. Hospital policy.) |
Hey, GR.  I'm trying to prove a point here, so I need a pro vaxer to tell me why this isn't done if the time before a shot is so dangerous that the baby can catch one of these deadly diseases.
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gryp
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 9:56 am
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You won't find any pro-vaxer in favor of injecting a newborn all at once. That's my point.
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GAMZu
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 10:30 am
Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...
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Israeli Mother
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 3:24 pm
This is an interesting discussion. Tachlis, in our extended family there are some people who vaccinate their kids with every vaccine and on time and some who don't hold by most vaccines at all. In my personal situation, my older kids were vaccinated with whatever was required for them to go to school but our youngest did not get almost any vaccines. I think IIRC she got only one vaccine her whole life [she's almost 15]. All of the rest she did not get and we never had any trouble with her going to school. The only vaccine she had was one DT [no P, she was already 5 or 6 years old when she got her one vaccine]. And by the way, this very hardy youngest who almost never gets sick [she had one ear infection and that was the only time she needed an antibiotic, never had strep bli ayin hara] was born with heart defects and had open heart surgery at the age of 3 months and so if anyone would be weaker or more sickly it logically should have been her.
What we have found to be the consequence of not vaccinating in our extended family is that every one of the non-vaccinated kids in our extended family is much hardier and much healthier than the vaccinated ones in every case. However, since life is not lived in a vacuum, it is not necessarily that vaccines make kids more susceptible to being sick or that vaccines lower immunity, but very likely also has to do with the fact that those people who don't vaccinate also serve their families very different foods and they live a more healthy [crunchy? is that how you all would call it?] lifestyle than those who do vaccinate their kids.
All in all, I don't tell patients not to vaccinate their kids nor do I tell them that they must vaccinate their kids. I educate parents as to the real facts [not hype on either side] and let parents make their own decison. Not vaccinating does not guarantee that your kids will get sick and vaccinating does not guarantee that they won't.
So, if you are concerned about who to keep away from your baby I'd say that worrying about kids who have not been vaccinated is not really a realistic concern unless you have a fear about a specific pathology that is making the rounds at that specific moment [like in the spring when the chicken pox blooms in all the gans].
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Marion
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 3:56 pm
| fountain wrote: | | On hindsight, many millions and millions of people got the shot, there were no reported deaths or bad side effects (unless you believe that lady who walked backwards....). |
Actually, there were a reported 86 anaphylactic reactions in one weekend in Canada to some ingredient in the vaccine (unreported which ingredient, and in which version of the vaccine). I'd consider that a "bad side effect".
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amother
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 4:11 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know the critical danger zone for pertussis in infants is a full year. Being that the vax is given at 2, 4 and 6 months, the critical time is not missed - it's only delayed two months.
My brother contracted pertussis when he was just under three months old (they used to give the vax at three months not two). Believe me, the fear that surrounded my family when the doctors told my parents "90 percent mortality rate in infants this young" is not something I wish upon any family ever.
So I guess someone who came so close to experiencing death of a loved one to this desease will never be heard saying "they only vaxinate for it because it's annoying."
The miracle of his recovery (including a bracha from a tzaddik and a passul mezuzah) is often relived by my family - 22 years later.
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gryp
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 4:13 pm
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Yes, pertussis is really scary for young infants.
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GAMZu
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 4:18 pm
| Marion wrote: | | fountain wrote: | | On hindsight, many millions and millions of people got the shot, there were no reported deaths or bad side effects (unless you believe that lady who walked backwards....). |
Actually, there were a reported 86 anaphylactic reactions in one weekend in Canada to some ingredient in the vaccine (unreported which ingredient, and in which version of the vaccine). I'd consider that a "bad side effect". | And several groups of people in the US who GOT the flu shortly after being vaccinated. There have been many side effects of the vaccines, not nec. all of them were reported. And many have yet to rise to the surface.
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Plonis
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Sun, Jan 17 2010, 11:08 pm
Yes, my brother was 3 months old. I know it's scary for a baby. We couldn't let him cry because he wouldnt be able to breathe. He was in the emergency room 3 times before they figured out what it was. Although nobody told us about the 90% mortality rate (?).
My point is that it takes most kids a few of the vaccine series before they are immune anyhow, meaning that at the most vulnerable age they are not likely immune. For older kids, when the vaccine might actually kick in, it's a highly annoying disease and not very dangerous.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Mon, Jan 18 2010, 9:42 am
(The pertussis booster is given to adolescents/adults as well as a "public health" thing to try to minimize the chances of an infant getting it...)
[Is it normal in Israel for a one year old to get MMR, Varicella, DTaP, and mother forgot what else all in one visit?!]
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gryp
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Mon, Jan 18 2010, 9:55 am
| Plonis wrote: | Yes, my brother was 3 months old. I know it's scary for a baby. We couldn't let him cry because he wouldnt be able to breathe. He was in the emergency room 3 times before they figured out what it was. Although nobody told us about the 90% mortality rate (?).
My point is that it takes most kids a few of the vaccine series before they are immune anyhow, meaning that at the most vulnerable age they are not likely immune. For older kids, when the vaccine might actually kick in, it's a highly annoying disease and not very dangerous. |
Also, it's highly debated whether or not the pertussis vaccine actually brought down the outbreak levels or not.
And Dtap seems to be the culprit in a big majority of vaccine injuries/deaths.
Besides, if adults are spreading (undiagnosed) whooping cough, it's time to stop blaming unvaxed kids for doing the spreading.
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GAMZu
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Mon, Jan 18 2010, 1:16 pm
OP, can't you vaccinate the baby now?
OK, so pertussis is life threatening to a newborn, but they don't get the vaccine until they spend two month unprotected. And then, they need three of the vaccines over a several months so they don't develop immunity until the risky time is almost over.
And instead of vaccinating newborns, they are vaccinating some adolescents and adults to minimize the risk to them.
So, does no one have the same question as I do?
Why not vaccinate right after birth??
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pecan
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Mon, Jan 18 2010, 2:17 pm
They vaccinate for pneumococcal disease now too.
My brother had it and he almost died. He is a miracle.
I'm sure that if people would see the terrible sicknesses that people used to die from, that there are now vaccinations for, the choice would be a little clearer.
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Marion
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Mon, Jan 18 2010, 3:20 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: |
[Is it normal in Israel for a one year old to get MMR, Varicella, DTaP, and mother forgot what else all in one visit?!] |
Yes, the MMR is now an MMRV. I only remember the one shot though for DS#2...DTaP I think he had at 18 months? But his chart is still in my bag downstairs from our last visit last week.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Tue, Jan 19 2010, 9:45 am
| Marion wrote: | | Hashem_Yaazor wrote: |
[Is it normal in Israel for a one year old to get MMR, Varicella, DTaP, and mother forgot what else all in one visit?!] |
Yes, the MMR is now an MMRV. I only remember the one shot though for DS#2...DTaP I think he had at 18 months? But his chart is still in my bag downstairs from our last visit last week. | Right, I didn't think they would give DTaP as well at the same time!
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imaima
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Tue, Jan 19 2010, 10:05 am
| GAMZu wrote: | Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax... |
I think if it could have been done, it would have been done. if newborns were strong enough to endure all these vaccines, then they would have been given on the day of birth. however we are not born perfect, so children can only be vaxed at several omnths of age.
I know your next question, Gamzu: Why there is no easy treatment for AIDS and cancer if they are so bad? I have an answer: it would have been fantastic, but you can only use the methods that are available NOW and not in 20 or 120 years
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Tue, Jan 19 2010, 10:39 am
| imaima wrote: | | GAMZu wrote: | Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax... |
I think if it could have been done, it would have been done. if newborns were strong enough to endure all these vaccines, then they would have been given on the day of birth. however we are not born perfect, so children can only be vaxed at several omnths of age.
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Can a 12 lber at birth be given what a 12 lber at 3 months is given?
What if a baby is born at 4 lbs and is only 8 lbs by 2 months?
Why is no distinction made for individual babies?
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