Anti-vaccination friends - what do you do?

sbeck212

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 11:30 am

From ask the experts : see link below

Why are vaccines generally not given to infants under 6 weeks of age in the U.S.?

Mainly because little safety or efficacy data exist on doses given before 6 weeks of age, and the vaccines aren't licensed for this use. The data that exist suggest that the response to doses given before 6 weeks is poor; the response to hepatitis B vaccine is the exception.

http://www.immunize.org/askexp.....l.asp

imaima

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 1:05 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

imaima wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

I think if it could have been done, it would have been done. if newborns were strong enough to endure all these vaccines, then they would have been given on the day of birth. however we are not born perfect, so children can only be vaxed at several omnths of age.

Can a 12 lber at birth be given what a 12 lber at 3 months is given?
What if a baby is born at 4 lbs and is only 8 lbs by 2 months?
Why is no distinction made for individual babies?

are you sure it only depends on the weight? I'm not an expert. The question I originally asked was whther it is polite to avoid people if they don't vax their kids. And if yes, how to express it nicely. That's why it is posted in the Manners section.
If we compare two reasons to avoid people, discussed in this forum - non-vaxed kids vs dirty house seen once or twice - then, which reason do you think is more legitimate?

amother

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 4:54 pm

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

And if children are vaxed responsibly on time these babies wouldn't stand the risk of getting the disease in the first place.

To answer the ops question, I wouldn't allow a non-vaxed child to be around my newborn. All it takes is hearing one story of a baby dying from whooping cough because a mother decided not to vax her child to convince me. A few years ago there was one such story in the news-a baby died from whooping cough after contracting the disease from an unvaxed friend of her sibling. There are vaxs in the world for a reason. And just btw? I breast-feed, co-sleep, and try to buy as much organic as possible.

saw50st8

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 5:00 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

imaima wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

Can a 12 lber at birth be given what a 12 lber at 3 months is given?
What if a baby is born at 4 lbs and is only 8 lbs by 2 months?
Why is no distinction made for individual babies?

I'm not 100% sure on the weight issue, but I know my doc delays vaccines if he isn't 100% sure the baby is ready for it or if the baby has any slight illness (like a stuffy nose or something).

Neither of my children got Hep B at birth. I delivered at Columbia and they don't vax at birth. All vaccines were started at 2 months (or in DS#2 3 months because he had a cold).

rainbow

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 6:47 pm

amother wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

I have to wonder whether said baby had other health issues that impacted immunity. The generally healthy child's immune system can fight it; and with some support in the form of vitamin c, etc. the child should be fine. I have a hard time believing an otherwise healthy child died from whooping cough.
We had a whooping cough situation in our home and the child didn't come anywhere near death. and none of the other siblings 'caught' it, despite not being immunized (well, some are and some aren't, but no one else got the whooping cough)
did I forgot to mention, said child got the whooping cough after being vaccinated against it? seriously.

amother

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 7:31 pm

rainbow wrote:

amother wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

If you read through the whole thread or even google it you'll see that whooping cough can be a very serious disease for infants and can in many instances be fatal.
You got lucky b"h. But there are many families who didn't.

amother

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 7:36 pm

rainbow wrote:

amother wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

Please read this
http://diseases.emedtv.com/who......html

GAMZu

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 1:04 am

Amother, immunity wears off. It's not the unvaxed kids spreading it, it's the adults. ALL adults, unless they got a booster.

So the vaccine is too dangerous to give to a newborn... more dangerous than getting the virus?
You have to weigh pros and cons, but if the vaccine is so dangerous that it's better for a newborn to get a fatal illness... Well, what's the question? Vaccines aren't benign. The ARE dangerous. The govt. decided that until 2 months of age, the risk of vaccines is greater than the risk of the disease. But you know, I get to decide for my kids as well.

I haven't yet researched fully enough to know which vaccines are worth the risk to avoid the disease. But since I definitely don't vax the kids till age 2, some shots like pertussis fall to the wayside. They aren't pertinent anymore. Which makes me wonder further... like rubella. It's only dangerous for fetuses. So why should my boys get it? And why should girls get it before they able to get pregnant?

Last edited by GAMZu on Wed, Jan 20 2010, 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 9:56 am

imaima wrote:

If we compare two reasons to avoid people, discussed in this forum - non-vaxed kids vs dirty house seen once or twice - then, which reason do you think is more legitimate?

Neither bother me.
I do my hishtadlus as I see fit, whether to vaccinate against something or try to get natural immunity, and I daven that my kids stay healthy either which way. Bottom line, I do what I think is right, but ultimately there is Someone Else in control that can make things happen either which way.
And if someone has a messy house, it validates me that how I live is normal LOL

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 9:57 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

imaima wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

Can a 12 lber at birth be given what a 12 lber at 3 months is given?
What if a baby is born at 4 lbs and is only 8 lbs by 2 months?
Why is no distinction made for individual babies?

I'm not 100% sure on the weight issue,

Why do people doubt that weight affects the way the body is able to handle a vaccine?
The FDA has guidelines for toxins for weights, yet they are ignored when giving vaccines to babies who likely don't even meet those weights.

Don't we dose Tylenol based on weight?

imaima

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 1:45 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

imaima wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

Can a 12 lber at birth be given what a 12 lber at 3 months is given?
What if a baby is born at 4 lbs and is only 8 lbs by 2 months?
Why is no distinction made for individual babies?

I'm not 100% sure on the weight issue,

why do you qoute governmental chatrs if you don't allow the government to prescribe vaccines for your kids? Aren't they all in a conspiracy to sell the vaccines to the population?

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 1:49 pm

imaima wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

imaima wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Right, and why?
I mean, if they are vulnerable to all these diseases until they get the vax...

Can a 12 lber at birth be given what a 12 lber at 3 months is given?
What if a baby is born at 4 lbs and is only 8 lbs by 2 months?
Why is no distinction made for individual babies?

I'm not 100% sure on the weight issue,

why do you qoute governmental chatrs if you don't allow the government to prescribe vaccines for your kids? Aren't they all in a conspiracy to sell the vaccines to the population?

Huh?
The FDA has nothing to do with the AAP. And the "government" is allowed to recommend vaccination. However, I think the doctors should take the make up of each individual baby into consideration and help a parent with the benefits of risks of specific diseases and their respective vaccines to come up with the best thing for each child. I'm dreaming, I know.
But 1) the AAP is NOT the government, and 2)I'm not sure what vaccines are "prescribed" and 3)I don't know where it ever came across that I don't allow whatever this is and 4)NOT ALL DISEASES AND NOT ALL VACCINES ARE THE SAME.
This bothers me to no end...lumping "vaccination" into one topic as if they are all created equal.

WriterMom

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 2:03 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I've wondered this about a lot of things. For instance, a woman who is 5'0 and weighs 105 lbs gets the exact same dose of the birth control pill as an obese woman of 250 lbs, and everyone in between. Is it really that effective in all of them? The standard prescription for antiobiotics for, say, a throat infection doesn't vary by weight, age (if you're an adult) or relations, and it seems to me highly improbable that all people metabolize the drug at an identical rate or in the same way.

imaima

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 2:18 pm

GAMZu wrote:

Gamzu please educate yourself. Rubella is dangerous for every adult regardless of gender. It is a much harder disease for a grown-up than for a child, with possible severe complications. If the child had rubella before the age of 2, the immunity may not last till adulthood. So it's not all about pregnancy.
the last time I was vaccinated against rbella was at the age of 14. That was the last one of 2 or 3 vaxes that one gets in the childhood (don't remember the details). The docs told me that immunity will last for up to 20 years afterwards. Now that I am pregnant at almost 24, I.e. 10 yrs later, I still have a very decent immunity.
So why should your boys get it? Becaus you don't want them to be very sick, do you? Neither when they are boys, nor when they are men.

imaima

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 2:54 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

That's not true.
Rubella is rarely dangerous for a born person.
The main concern (and the reason boosters are given) is for pregnant women who are not immune to be exposed.

Not vaccinating a child for it, even if that child would contract rubella, would not make them very sick. Especially as a child.

BEsides rash and fever, rubella may cause headache, swelling joints and conjunctivitis, swollen lymph nose etc. in teens and adults. ok it's not life threatening, but the only thing you risk vaccinating against rubella in the childhood is having kids sick with it, which as you said is no big deal. Either way they will be immunized Wink

BTw, if the woman is TTC and gets vaccinated against rbella, she should possibly wait for three months before getting pregnant after the vaccination

Inspired

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 4:39 pm

WriterMom wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&a.....2f3c4

Inspired

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 4:42 pm

imaima wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Gamzu please educate yourself. Rubella is dangerous for every adult regardless of gender.

Please educate your self. No, it is not.

Plonis

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:17 am

imaima wrote:

ok it's not life threatening, but the only thing you risk vaccinating against rubella in the childhood is having kids sick with it, which as you said is no big deal. Either way they will be immunized Wink

No, the risk of vaccinating against rubella is not that they might contract the disease. There are more serious questions to be asked, like:
- are the preservatives safe? (yes, vaccines have preservatives as they are made in large batches)
- what are the adjuvants? (ingredients that magnify the body's response, so less of the active ingredient is necessary)
- bichlal, is it safe to bypass so many of the body's natural immunity systems? (nose, throat, skin etc. all are the "first response" to foreign bodies like diseases)
- what are the long-term reactions to the vaccine?
- how long does the immunity last?
- could my child be allergic to some of the ingredients?
- is the risk of all of the above greater than the risk from the disease?
- do we have ways to treat the disease?
etc.