Women and Davening

Motek

Wed, May 18 2005, 6:05 pm

I don't have a scanner. I type these things up.

The following is what Rabbi Y.Y. Belinov, rosh kollel in Bnei Brak said is the minimum for the women who feel they cannot daven the entire davening because of pressing childcare and housework obligations:

(references to Tehillas Hashem siddur)

Modeh ani through Hareini (mekabel olai ..)

the para. in Korbonos that begins with the word "vayedaber" on p. 19

Shema (p. 46) until the end of Shemone Esrei

p. 82, the para beginning with the word "pitum"

Aleinu until the end including Ach Tzadikim

Mincha Shemonei Esrei

Kerias Shema on p. 118 through Hamapil, including Hamapil

yehudis

Wed, May 18 2005, 7:28 pm

I just read this thread. I have to agree with RG and others -- I don't understand what this woman means by "arrange the little ones." How do you do that exactly? How can you guarantee that they won't need it for the next 10 minutes?

And then there is always the yetzer hara or the satan or whatever it is. Whenever I think that the children are playing so nicely and I could daven, I get a siddur, open it, and... I hear screaming because they can't share something and need me to interfere, or they simply come and pull on my skirt and want me to read them a book.

It's very rear that I get to daven formally. But I always thought that it counts when we speak to Hashem throughout the day -- thanking Him for a child taking a nap, asking him for help with making dinner...

sarahd

Thu, May 19 2005, 7:29 am

This is the order of priorities for Shacharis, according to Rigshei Lev, who quotes R' Chaim Pinchos Scheinberg:

1. Birkos Haschachar, first posuk of Shema with baruch shem, bracha after Shema (Emes Veyatziv-Go'al Yisroel), Shmone Esrei
2. Baruch Sheamar, Ashrei, Yishtabach
3. Hallelukahs (priority as follows: 5; 3; 1,2,4)
4. first paragraph of Shema
5. rest of Shema
6. brachos before Shema
7. rest of psukei deZimra. In order of priority: Vayevoreich Dovid-Lishem Tifartecha; Hodu-Vehu Rachum; Mizmor lesoda; rest of psukei deZimra.
8. Aleinu
9. Ashrei
10. Uva Letzion
11. Parshas Hatamid, Tachanun, Lamnatzeyach, Ein Kelokeinu-pitum haktores, shir shel Yom.

gryp

Thu, May 19 2005, 9:24 am

sarahd- thats pretty interesting that the Hallelukah's come before Shema. we always learned that Shema is the most important part of davening after Shmone Esrei.

Rivkie81

Thu, May 19 2005, 9:38 am

To clarify what I wrote yesterday, about what Rabbi Heller said. I asked my husband again and he said there is an argument as to whether women have to daven or not, but it was never a must for women to daven. Hope that clears things up.

sarahd

Thu, May 19 2005, 5:53 pm

RG wrote:

sarahd- thats pretty interesting that the Hallelukah's come before Shema. we always learned that Shema is the most important part of davening after Shmone Esrei.

Yup, the author also mentions that it might seem counterintuitive to put the Hallelukas before most of Shema, but he explains that women's priorities are different than men's. Our chiyuv is to daven Shmone Esrei. The brocha after Shema (Emes VeYatziv, etc.) and Psukei deZimra are required preambles to Shmone Esrei. Women are not mechuyav in Krias Shema or birchos Krias Shema, so these have less priority.

gryp

Thu, May 19 2005, 6:55 pm

they obviously have less priority to Shmone Esrei, but how can they have less priority to the Hallelukahs which are just tehillim?

sarahd

Thu, May 19 2005, 7:46 pm

Pretty much all of Psukei DeZimra except for the beginning and end brochos is "only" tehillim or taken from other kesuvim. So what? Shmone Esrei was "only" written by Anshei Knesses Hagdola, while tehillim was written by Dovid Hamelech. The point being, it's not where something is taken from, it's what your chiyuv is. Women are not mechuyav in Shema, as it's a mitzvas aseh shehazman grama (the reason we do say at least the first part is in order to participate in kabolas ol malchus shomayim), and they are mechuyav in Shmone Esrei and all its parts, so they take priority.

gryp

Thu, May 19 2005, 8:03 pm

the reason why it seems strange to me is because davening is a "ladder" that we climb step by step, split up into 4 parts corresponding to the 4 worlds. Shmone Esrei is when you are supposed to be connected with Hashem in the highest world, and Shema until Shmone Esrei corresponds to the world right below that. so I would think that we should daven more of the parts of davening on the higher level, than the hallelukahs which are on a lower level.

roza

Thu, May 19 2005, 9:48 pm

Quote:

davening is a "ladder" that we climb step by step, split up into 4 parts corresponding to the 4 worlds.

there are also "shortcuts" Wink

anyway. 'eilu ve'eilu...'

there are different systems and pathways to Hashem.
(just a friendly reminder)

curlyhead

Fri, May 20 2005, 2:22 am

after reading that article in the nshei newsletter I got inspired and try to daven the minumum that is writen there. And when I say brachos I get my toddler to say amen. that keep him out of trouble.

lucky

Fri, May 20 2005, 11:06 am

When I dont have time to daven, which is pretty often. I say a beautiful yiddish tefilla. I dont know who put it together I got it at a party as
doop prize. I dont know how to use my scanner so I cant put it up here.
basicly it says thank you for making me be a busy mother to my children annd help me raise them right. help me know my kids are my priority.etc.

It is laminated and hangs in view, so when I pass it I just say it.

Motek

Thu, Feb 16 2006, 11:44 am

read this about women and her prayer obligations:

http://www.torah.org/advanced/......html

I found these footnotes to the article interesting:

Quote:

5 The Chafetz Chayim's son reported (Sichos Chafetz Chayim, pg. 13) that his mother rarely davened when her children were young. She said that the Chafetz Chayim exempted her from davening during that period in her life.

6 Harav M. Feinstein (quoted in Ko Somar l'Beis Yaakov, pg. 29) once remarked that the fact the many women were illiterate and were not required by the rabbanim to learn how to read is proof that they relied on the poskim who did not require women to daven Shacharis and Minchah, although women certainly recited supplications.

chen

Thu, Feb 16 2006, 2:17 pm

Tefila wrote:

Actually I would like to know how many she has at home that time and exactly what she does to keep them from disturbing, she sounds like superwomen 8)

or she may have very placid children. My neighbor with the KA"H ten children, you'd think they were on sedatives b/c they were all so low-key. (so are both parents.) My other neighbor with 3 has 2 hi-energy kids, one of whom is bouncing off the walls all day, and the youngest is the easiest, most laid-back child you'd ever hope to see. she said if all her children were like the youngest, she'd have had a dozen.

avigayil

Sat, Feb 18 2006, 11:13 pm

The last time I tried to daven a full Shachris, ds pulled a lamp down...on my head. He has pretty much stopped napping too. I do see women who daven no matter what though....even if their baby is screaming their head off.
I think we need to be realistic about our davening goals when you have small children at home. Some days when dh goals into work a little later, he watchs dh for a few minutes so I can say brachas and maybe Shema.

Chani

Sat, Feb 18 2006, 11:50 pm

Off topic - but Rabbi Nissel (Rigshei Lev) was mekarev us about 15 years ago when he was living in Memphis! He and his wife are really very wonderful.

rainbow baby

Thu, Mar 23 2006, 4:51 am

What does a women need to do concerning Davening and learning each day? I now different people say different things, Some opions say that women need to just davern Brochas, others say nothing and others say everything. But do we actually now what we are ment to. By the way I am Lubavitch so this might a difference.