Upset at article in Ami #7

manhattanmom

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 8:36 pm

I just knew that someone would already be posting about this article as soon as shabbos ended.
I must say that after this week I feel I have given the Ami Magazine enough time and it's no longer going to be my shabbos reading material.

I was also quite furious at this story. I understand the approach for natural parenting. A lot of that is admirable. Healthy food, not rushing into antibiotics is okay. Not vaccinating or delaying vaccinations is also somewhat understandable (not that I'm pro that all all, but I have heard it before) The fact that she said that her kids don't go to doctors--that can be abusive, I think.

To never stop a fever or treat a kid who has puss draining out of his ears....I've been up nights with sick kids--babies with ear infections are MISERABLE. and it definitely affects the whole family. Parents don't sleep, nobody can function--to have this go on for a few days until it heals without trying to stop it besides for not being interested in the stress it would cause me, it's a terrible thing to do to your child. I hope that if one of her kids breaks a bone or needs stitches she'd take him/her to a competent doctor.

Also, her whole speech about the woman should stay home and cook and clean--sounds nice for the 1950s. But it's not that decade anymore. It hasn't been for a while. The world has changed and it just doesn't work that way. With this mentality she'd have to not approve of a kollel lifestyle at all. We are not a kollel family and guess what?! My husband and I both have to work if we want to be able to afford to live. There's no way we'd be able to pay bills--let alone ever afford to own a home if we don't get out and do something about it. This part offended me the most. And I'm certainly going to be writing a letter to Ami Magazine about this article as well as some of the other ones from this week and past weeks.

Merrymom

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 10:43 pm

I think alot of you ladies are overeacting. She was just a woman pointing out the benefits to living her lifestyle. I don't think she was saying "You horrible working mother who gives junk food to your kids all day". She was saying why it works for her, what she learned, and why for the most part her own children who are now adults have taken upon themselves a similar lifestyle. Her kids are healthy and have never gone to doctors! Do you realize what that means? How many of us can say the same thing? I know I can't and it made me feel a little jealous. I'm not prepared to do what she says and I am not against medicine the way she is but I enjoyed reading about her lifestyle very much. Can you only read articles that you 100% agree with? What a bore.....

5S5Sr7z3

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:09 pm

I didnt read that article, I didnt even get to read the AMI yet (my neighbor gives it to me), but I know that lady in the article. I know 2 of her daughters VERY WELL. And I disagree completely with her - funny she didnt mention how her husband died. He had diabetes, easily treatable, yet refused to see a doctor or take meds. He instead went on a 7 day cleansing diet and died in the middle of that one. One of her daughters kids had impetigo (sp??), highly contagious, yet she sent them to school and couldnt understand what was so bad that the neighbors didnt allow their kids anywhere near hers for 2 weeks.

It's all very well to live naturally, but along with common sense. Untreated strep can be extremely dangerous (speaking from bitter experience here).

quickchef

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:24 pm

Mama Bear,

And I, LOVE them for this article!

I don't think it was written in a condescending manner at all... While I do not intend to put into practice some of the more extreme (TO ME!) ideas, I was actually inspired by much of the article. I think it is very important, like some other commenters mentioned, to have a give and take of all types of approaches, and all should be equally valid as a topic for a magazine read by a diverse group of women/people.

And - Just because some people do not have the energy, or interest, to be more health-minded, they should not disparage or discourage others from trying. You would be surprised to learn how many mothers out there do things similarly (maybe not that extreme) and actually have no need for a doctor for their children... instead of "living" by the doctor with another child every other week... (Try it, you might like it Wink

(Disclosure: Yes, I am a staunch pro "be-informed about vaccines" mom - meaning, don't give vaccines to your children before you are completely informed about the pros and cons, do's and don'ts, etc.)

JAWSCIENCE

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:25 pm

I agree we should not discuss the actual family, the size of the nosh closet in their house etc. Discussing the ideology is fine.

I think if you want to not treat kids for things you should at lest keep them away from others. You don't want to vaccinate your kids? OK, When there's another measles outbreak in Boro Park because everyone is saying "I think it's really important but let other people take all the risk and let me be the one person not to and still be protected from herd immunity" my kid will still be protected because he/she has been vaccinated. But when you don't treat other contagious illnesses you at least have to pull your child from school to stop them from infecting other kids.

And with strep throat I actually believe it is child abuse because of the further reaching health issues and the very small chance of side effects from the proven treatment. I completely agree with the pediatrician that says "treat strep or never come here ". I believe in integrating holistic/natural medicine and mainstream medicine in a medical practice and working with each patients culture/personal ideology. But when there is a proven danger that is easily treated (and you can even take measures to avoid the few potential side effects) and you refuse to treat, as a physician I might be legally required to report you to family services for child abuse.

As for it being evil to go out for a workout - sure there are some self absorbed mothers who are more into themselves than their children. There are also some who have serious weight and health issues and by exercising they reduce their risks of heart disease considerably. It's better to have a mother who leaves for an hour to go to the gym everyday than to be an orphan because your mother had a massive heart attack.

Working vs. not working has been debated on here and I do not think anyone is ever going to convince the other side. But I think it's better to have a roof over your head and a babysitter than to have a stay at home mom with no home for her to stay in. So to paint every working mother with the same brush is ridiculous. Some work because they can't feed their families (not talking fancy food or having luxuries. I am talking staples of life).

manhattanmom

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:43 pm

Tova wrote:

ILOVE - good point.

Manhattan - what else did you find controversial this week?

PIP - keep in mind, that often magazines publish letters two weeks after...meaning, by the time issue 7 is out, issue 8 is close to print, so letters relating to issue 7 are published in issue 9.

Maybe not controversial--but I was completely turned off by the mother who wanted to spare her daughter from knowing the possibility that she may have been exposed to the RSV virus during pregnancy and that the mother (grandmother of baby) knew there might as a result be serious complications during her pregnancy. If your daughter is mature enough to get married and have her own family she should know about something like this. Mother should have told her and let her adult daughter handle it.
If something would have been wrong, and daughter found out that her mother knew, it would have been quite a different story.

manhattanmom

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:47 pm

quickchef wrote:

Mama Bear,

And - Just because some people do not have the energy, or interest, to be more health-minded, they should not disparage or discourage others from trying. You would be surprised to learn how many mothers out there do things similarly (maybe not that extreme) and actually have no need for a doctor for their children... instead of "living" by the doctor with another child every other week... (Try it, you might like it Wink

I'm all for trying different ways to prevent you from "living at the pediatrician's office" but to not go to a pediatrician EVER is a different story.

quickchef

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:54 pm

Not "treating strep" is not the same as "never needing to go to doctors". The point of a healthy or alternative approach is to get the immune system to work on such a level that a person does not get strep (the body fights germs/the bacteria before it presents as strep).

But of course, if that approach did not work, you have to treat whatever disease presents itself ch"v.

I personally have learned to recognize certain symptoms... and if I see my kids "coming up with something" I quickly try to use all the "tools in my naturopathic/complementary toolbox" (kyolic - given three times a day which acts much like an antibiotic, vit c., and other immune boosters) and more often than not it works b"h. IF ch"v that wouldn't work, I would NOT hesitate to give antibiotics... but at the same time, I would make sure to give acidopholus along with it, and work on boosting their immune system.

Mama Bear - you were curious about and asked what if someone that follows the general approach (alternative/integrative) ch"v is presented with a situation that no one ever wants to find themselves in... you wonder what they would do... Well, I am here to tell you that of course you gotta do what you gotta do (daven, do research or have others help with it, listen to doctors directives, daven again)... and then support with whatever alternative/integrative medicine has to offer, too.

Toriadore

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:55 pm

I think it's fun to hear people rant and rave. I'm a working woman and I enjoyed hearing her rant about us. Obviously, she is dillusional to think that women work because we rather work than clean--life is just too expensive nowadays to not work.

I don't think the editors at AMI agree with her--they are all working women too--I think the whole point is to incite conversation, which is obviously has.

A few weeks ago there was another interview with a women who complained about women walking into the doctor's office with fur coats and diamond jewelry and handing in their medicaid cards. I don't agree with that either. I know a lot of people who receive nice things, like fur coats and jewelry when they are a kallah -- especially in my community it's the norm -- but that doesnt mean that they can afford the month to month expense of things like health insurance. Yes, I'm sure that there are people who try to cheat the system, but what does she want the rest of us to do-- sell our kallah jewelry to pay for one or two health insurance premiums? BUT as a reader, I still think it's entertaining to hear people's opinions--and laugh about it.

manhattanmom

Sat, Jan 22 2011, 11:59 pm

Toriadore wrote:

A few weeks ago there was another interview with a women who complained about women walking into the doctor's office with fur coats and diamond jewelry and handing in their medicaid cards. I don't agree with that either. I know a lot of people who receive nice things, like fur coats and jewelry when they are a kallah -- especially in my community it's the norm -- but that doesnt mean that they can afford the month to month expense of things like health insurance. Yes, I'm sure that there are people who try to cheat the system, but what does she want the rest of us to do-- sell our kallah jewelry to pay for one or two health insurance premiums? BUT as a reader, I still think it's entertaining to hear people's opinions--and laugh about it.

If that's what was done for kallahs in my community, I'd ask for the cash value instead and invest it so I can use the money for my living needs. And when I can pay for my own health insurance and rent/mortgage and pay for food without food stamps, I will buy myself pretty things.

causemommysaid

Sun, Jan 23 2011, 12:22 am

manhattanmom wrote:

Toriadore wrote:

try telling that to your mother in law. LOL ha ha ha. be real. no 19 year old girl is going to tell their future MIL to return the jewlery and fancy lichter so that she can invest the money. thats like asking her to hate you for the rest of your life.

as an aside though- do we really want to turn this into another government programs debate?

regarding AMI- I bought it once. NEVER again. I cant stand how depressing those articles are. in one week I read about a dead baby and a mother accused of murdering it, a girl who got divorced and lived out her life alone because of her insane parents, and a family ripped apart because the father tells his son he is a mamzer a couple months before his wedding.

why in the world would anyone actually enjoy reading that stuff. ugh. I'll stick to my cheerful chick lit. that puts me in a good mood and keeps my blood pressure balanced.

Toriadore

Sun, Jan 23 2011, 12:25 am

I don't think there is anything wrong with kallahs getting jewelry--they are supposed to feel extra special at that time in their life, and they should be shining, obviously within the means of their in-laws.

Besides for a couple of inexpensive things, I have not gotten jewelry since I'm married (paying a mortgage on a home in any New York area Jewish neighborhood is like getting a diamond bracelet every month), but I'm happy I have a few nice pieces from when I got married.

I've never been on any government programs. During the first two years I was married, my in-laws did pay for regular health insurance for us while my husband was in kollel. After two years, when they couldnt afford to support us anymore, my husband went to work. If I felt that he was cut out to learn full time longer term, I would have been fine living a simpler lifestyle and taking government assistance for things like health insurance, but it just wasn't right for us.

I have sister in laws who did make that choice. Even if they weren't supported anymore, they simplified, stayed in kollel, lived on less money overall, and took government assistance.

What would you have liked them to do at that point? Sell their kallah bracelet? Do you know where that gets you? One, maybe two months of health insurance premiums? C'mon.

Mama Bear

Sun, Jan 23 2011, 12:57 am

Manhattan Mom and YsMommy thank you!!!!

I will still be buying Ami. It's a trainwreck I cant look away from. My curiosity keeps me buying it again and again. Yet I'm amazed how every single week they publish controversial story after controversial story, depressing story after depressing story. I have yet to read a light, funny, humorous, fictional story... SOMETHING to lighten the mood! Please!! ami Living is hardly shabbos reading!!!!But I'll still be buying it.

I'm glad to see I'm not alone though in being upset at the tone of the Mrs Silber article. I feel a little bad that I've incited a bit of a riot; their inbox is probably FLOODED with emails after this and I hope not all of it is my fault. But if something upsets me, I speak up!!! I hope I didnt cause a bunch of loshon hora and motzi shem ra by starting this thread. I should think before I speak... eh, type...

By the way did ANYONE catch the irony that there was a story about PANDAS - neglected strep - in the same issue as this woman who wont treat strep? LOL!

pina colada

Sun, Jan 23 2011, 1:16 am

yup, that article and the pandas one to me were totally off. both were one sided. afaik with the pandas one, treating pandas with antibiotics is controversial. generally treated it with natural methods is a lot more effective.
re: the mother who wouldn't vaccinate, where she wrote about not treating strep, it was extremely absurd as she said that living a natural lifestyle will heal all illnesses, however in times of old, BEFORE antibiotics was used to treat strep, strep was sometimes fatal.

a whole bunch of other things I did not agree with in that article.

as a whole ami living is good, but the layout is terrible. the article with the cosmetics did not have a title or starting page; and more.