Washing "what you need" during Chol Hamoed

Raisin

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 4:29 pm

Quote:

So you eat on YK if you're hungry;

You know, I do know someone, supposedly orthodox but with a conservative background who does not fast on Yom Kippur because it gives her a really bad migraine. Do you know an orthodox rabbi who would give a heter for that? (Assuming she gets the worst sort of migraines possible.) I don't think she does shiurim either, just eats.

shalhevet

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 4:43 pm

Marion wrote:

I've already asked the Rav about laundry on chol hamoed, so I don't need to ask him again.

I don't understand. An Orthodox rav said you're allowed to do any laundry you want on Chol Hamoed? shock

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If the light's off, the light's off

But common sense would tell you to put in on, no? {*note: this is a question that I'm asking you.}

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(although I've heard that you can "advance" the Shabbat clock to make it come on earlier, but we don't go by that).

I think you mean to change the clock to leave it longer in the same situation it's in already I.e. if it's on you can extend the time it will be on. This can be done in very specific circumstances. Consult your LOR to learn the details.

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And if there wasn't going to be anywhere to eat I'd pack lunch.

You've done the same thing again. Changed the question. Do I have to write 5 lines again to explain what I mean? OK, you're there (in Devon, England - no kosher shops or restaurants; you can buy fruit and veg) and you didn't bring a packed lunch.

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Does that answer your questions?

One of them. Keep going. Anyway now you have a new one.

healthymama

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 1:34 am

On the topic of common sense conflicting with halacha, please note this :

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Rav Carmell also taught me the corollary of “Accept the truth from wherever it comes,” which is “Reject falsehood from wherever it comes.” About twelve years ago, he rejected a halachic explanation that I had written in a manuscript on the grounds that it simply didn’t make sense. I protested that I was simply presenting the view of one of the Acharonim. Rav Carmell replied that one must be very wary of accepting something merely on the grounds that it was stated by a great authority if it does not make sense. As it happens, I went back and checked the sefer again, and it turned out that I had misunderstood what it stated. But the lesson remained with me; and I recently noticed that Rav Chaim of Volozhin, in his commentary to Pirkei Avos, comments that even if one’s own rebbe states something that does not seem to make sense, it is forbidden to accept it.

from here : http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/2......html

Marion

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 1:47 am

No, common sense would tell me that if it's too dark to read it's a good time to take a nap.

If there was nothing to eat? I'd probably go into a restaurant and order a can of diet Coke. It's not food, but it's something.

sarahd

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 4:58 am

But why would your common sense tell you to go to sleep at 5 PM on a winter Shabbos afternoon instead of turning on a light so you could read?

Or why wouldn't common sense tell you to go buy a burger at the nearest Devon McDonalds instead of starving on a Coke?

Marion

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 5:20 pm

Why are the answers to irrelevant questions so important to everyone? The question was about laundry...I answered it. You're asking me to answer questions about situations that don't happen to me in real life. My Shabbat clock goes on BEFORE it gets dark, and goes off at an hour that's late enough I should be in bed already. It's set that way on purpose...to remove the temptation to turn on (or off) a light. Common sense would tell me that I don't go into McDonald's in Devon and order a burger because I dont go into McDonald's ANYWHERE to order ANYTHING, including the few here which are supposedly kosher. Common sense and halacha go hand in hand.

I think that answers EVERYBODY'S questions.

shalhevet

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 7:15 pm

Marion wrote:

Sorry, not mine.

shalhevet

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 8:09 pm

Marion wrote:

mali wrote:

Quote:

mummyof6, forget it! Marion's next post will be her last one for this thread, going about in circles again and telling you she has already addressed your questions. She understood your questions, but has no answers. Face it.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

mali, chacham adif minavi. The only part you got wrong was it about it being her next post.

Flowerchild

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 8:26 pm

ok after reading these posts, I am at a loss, as to why marion needs to answer any of these questions, I think she answered them fine, mummyof6 what are you fishing for? its not like she is not making sense, she said that halacha and common sense go hand in hand, I know people who do laundry during hol hamoed, and she did say that she asked her rav about doing laundry so whats the problem, im just baffled at this continued attack. and yes, it is an attack, you keep asking her questions which she did answer.

shalhevet

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 8:37 pm

I really can't be bothered to start listing them again, but there are several questions which she hasn't answered at all. You can re-read the thread. There are also questions by other posters which she hasn't answered. And on other threads she has also made statements which she is not prepared to answer to (e.g. Ozmom's question on the baby conversion thread). If someone asks question X and she claims to have answered it by answering question Y, sorry, but that is not called answering the question.

Flowerchild

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 8:48 pm

ok I didnt read the thread you mentioned, but maybe she feels she doesnt need to explain, maybe she doesnt want to, she makes her posts and thats it maybe she doesnt want to justify herself, who knows. you are driving yourself crazy for nothing, she doesnt have to answer if she doesnt want to.

healthymama

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 10:55 pm

Quote:

I really can't be bothered to start listing them again, but there are several questions which she hasn't answered at all.

Please respond to my post about the comments of Rav Carmel and Reb Chaim of Volozhin about common sense. I would like to see whether you treat them with the same discourtesy you have shown Marion.

shalhevet

Fri, Oct 20 2006, 3:20 am

No-one is against using common sense IF it is in accordance with halacha. I presume the quotes you brought down were about e.g. whether to accept a particular peirush etc. The whole discussion here is that some posters feel that common sense overrides halacha.
I have absolutely no doubts for one moment that both Rav Carmell keeps and Reb Chaim of Volozhin kept the entire Shulchan Aruch (and then some...).

shalhevet

Fri, Oct 20 2006, 5:10 am

And in fact many of our mitzvos are "chukim" and have nothing to do with how we perceive common sense.

Not eating meat and milk together; not wearing shatnez; lulav and esrog; not having chametz in our house on Pesach - would someone like to explain how these are common sense? Confused

Marion

Fri, Oct 20 2006, 9:39 am

mummyof6 wrote:

Marion wrote:

Sorry, not mine.

Then I'm obviously an idiot, because I think I've answered them several times over. Or maybe you're trying to get me to give an untrue answer just to make yourself feel good? I could tell you I'd happily walk into McD's and order a double cheeseburger and a milkshake because, well, I'm hungry. But I wouldn't, so I won't. Give yourself a pat on the back for being so intelligent that no one can figure out what the problem is.

gryp

Fri, Oct 20 2006, 9:46 am

Quote:

Then I'm obviously an idiot, because I think I've answered them several times over

there is obviously a huge gap in the communication going on here. you two just dont understand the way each other speaks, and that led to nastiness in this and other threads.

Marion, I think mummyof6 is just asking a Yes or No question without any further explanations. it seems to me that you have answered No, that you would not turn the light on on shabbos, nor would you eat in Mc Donalds if you were hungry and there was no food around.