do your boys cry while learning with their father?

IloveHashem613

Mon, Jul 02 2012, 11:58 pm

yo'ma wrote:

I'm mostly talking about pre-teen and early teen, but with my ds and dh, my ds cries. Between my father and my brothers, they cried, and between one of my bil and my nephew, they cry. Is it just us, or does or did it happen with your ds and dh? LOL

gonna echo a few of the other posters that this whole scenario you are describing is a little disturbing. and why the smiley face? obviously if you posted asking if its normal, you had an inkling that its not, and it isn't normal for boys to cry when they are learning with their fathers, it should be a positive experience. better not to learn with them at all then learn with them and make them cry

Orchid

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 12:13 am

amother wrote:

I find a laughing smiley when paired with a description of crying children highly disturbing as well. It hints to emotional detachment.

Well worded.

If my sons were to cry, I would not find it funny. I would say SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE and work to change the situation.

To answer your question, no. They do not. Nor should they.

abound

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 1:30 am

By now I am sure you realized that it is not normal or okay. I would suggest someone else learn with your child and if money is an issue let your husband learn with someone else for money and then use that money to pay a tutor. Or find someone and barter an hour where the men each switch children to learn with so no one has to pay.
Learning is highly emotional and charged for many dad's some just cannot do it so they should not.
For the one who said her brother likes to read 12 years later, My son has a hard time with Kriah and hated it. He is up to nekudos now. In the begining for every letter I gave him a chocolate chip. Now we are up to every line he gets something small. It is loads of fun for him. There is a way to make it exciting to them. Though Kriah is not learning and does not have to be connceted to torah in the kids mind anyway.

amother

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 4:01 am

My father taught all the kids, boys and girls. We cried once in a while, but when we didn't cry, we repressed it. It was the worst experience ever.
I call myself learning disabled when it comes to kodesh learning. I can't absorb it, and I'm sure it's because of that bad learning experience. (I excel in secular studies btw).

exhausted

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 7:02 am

My DS does and it does come from unrealistic expectations on DH's part about how long a nine year old can sit, what time of day, etc. Of course, every time I try to bring up the issue, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know boys, and other nonsense!!! I pray all the time that my son should grow up normal and happy.My teenage DS has very little to do with his father.

yo'ma

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 7:08 am

For all who said there's something wrong, yes maybe, but the smiley face was the fact that they all cried, not that they cried, but that all of them did. When I say cry, I don't mean constant crying. I can't speak for my nephew or my brothers, but I can speak for my son and he's very sensitive. Even if my dh would say something that bothered him that has nothing to do with learning, he would cry or at least tear and tearing is really more what I mean than cry. My ds and my dh have a wonderful relationship. For sons who don't have a good relationship with their father and they cried with him when learning with him when they were younger, I'm sure there were other problems as well. BTW, my dh does not learn with my ds anymore and we are looking into hiring someone. Also, my bil no longer learns with his ds either. It's not like we see they're crying every time, so let's torture them and do it again, we DO take care of the problem.

As for me saying that the ds's lousy relationship with their father is maybe a tiny bit have to do with the crying, but not too much because like I said last time the probable reasons for the crying to begin with.

amother

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 10:52 am

My DH tutors several boys who cannot learn with their fathers. It's a great arrangement for DH who has no sons (B"H for daughters!)

The fathers realize that their sons need someone to learn with them but sometimes the father is not the right person. These are not people of means, but their sons' learning is important to them. (My DH also charges them far too little but that's another topic...he has a soft heart.)

DH will not learn with them longer than their ability to sit - so for example with one boy he told the father that 1/2 hour at a time is the max his son can sit. He also brings them a small treat for the end of the session (with the parents approval) and occasionally something bigger (like a donut or brownie bar.) The boys who learn with him on Shabbos afternoon get brought home for Shabbos party.

Learning should be associated with joy and a positive atmosphere. If this is not what's happening, it needs to change ASAP.

amother

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 11:08 am

yo'ma wrote:

I was a sensitive child, too. Instead of being treated gently, I was treated roughly - in an attempt to 'desensitize' me and help me 'get over it' and 'grow up' etc.

Now I am extremely closed to my emotions. I have forgotten (or forced myself to forget) how to express them properly. I hardly cry. My emotions express themselves in other ways - most notably, frequent headaches, backaches and stomachaches. On the rare occasions that I do cry, I cry completely silently. I am handicapped emotionally because of bad parenting.

Good for you OP, that you're taking this seriously and finding a different solution that works for everyone without knocking down your child.

freidasima

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 11:31 am

some guys are just emotional Ruchel.
A good rendition of Kah Ribon does them in.

As for little boys crying, our oldest used to cry when he learned anything with his dad as he couldn't stand getting an answer wrong (ds). It was nuts. None of the other kids including youngest ds would cry, not with him and not with me. But oldest ds was quite a crybaby over everything when he was younger so we took it in stride. He got over it.

momtherapist

Tue, Jul 03 2012, 1:06 pm

yo'ma wrote:

I'm glad to see that you got some clarity, and are making some changes. I happen to be very against homework in general, whether kodesh or chol, because it often contributes to negative interactions, especially in homes with many children. there are studies that report that there is no significant improvement to support giving homework. home environments should be relaxed and enjoyable, and homework does not help that. the family environment is too important and not worth damaging with the tension that arises when parents are helping several or lots of kids with homework.