would it be ok for a rabbi to say this to a woman

DrMom

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 2:38 am

amother wrote:

I have to post this as amother.
the rav of my current shul looks me over, head to toe, when he thinks I'm not looking. I notice. you can feel the lookover even if you don't see it. I ignore it. and when he gives his speech shabbos morning, I laugh inside knowing he has a little crush on me. if I would tel dh, he would switch shuls. so I keep it to myself. compliment me on my smile? how about glance at my boobs when he thinks I'm not looking... and yes he is a chasuhuva rav and no one would believe me, and no I don't think we need to switch shuls. men are men, I just ignore it.

Ew. I think you should switch shuls. Or make sure you have a very opaque mechitza.

I don't know what "men are men" means, but this rav sounds very unprofessional, at least from what you are describing.

Please don't tell me you go to him with shailot!

amother

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 6:56 am

amother wrote:

that's out of order. If I were you I would definitely switch shuls. I go there to pray not to be ogled by the rabbi. There is an old man at my shul who is a pervert like that. He goes up to women and squeezes them. Many women have expressed how they feel disgusted by it. If it was the rabbi it would not be a joke at all. This man's behaviour is wrong but he's an old man. A rabbi is a rabbi come on. With that title comes a codified scheme of behaviour one must maintain.
the op's rabbi doesn't sound perverted like this one. as he said it in a way which was not sinister or flirtatious and since a smile is to do with character as opposed to s-xual, it was simply a compliment.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 8:39 am

ElTam wrote:

I cannot see a scenario when any rabbi I interact with would find this appropriate.

How bout this: "Sara, did you think about whether you can take on the senior project that we discussed last week? You have a radiant smile, I think they would really enjoy having you lead the program and spend time with them."

amother

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 11:45 am

My high school principal/rabbi told me I have a beautiful smile. And he wasn't inappropriate.
I was a very angry teen. I always looked sullen and petulant. I was sitting in his office, he was trying to give me some chizuk about something, and I finally laughed. He said, "You know, you have a beautiful smile."
A smile lights up a person and yes, it is an attractive feature because people tend to like being around happy people.
But it's not s-xual and not erva and it's not uniquely feminine, so unless it's said in an inappropriate way, I don't know what is inappropriate about it.

gamekeeper

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 12:35 pm

amother wrote:

no offence but ewww...

I wonder if you would have the same feelings about 'men being men' and giggle if it were your husband having a crush and giving another woman in the community the 'look over' when she wasn't noticing. not so cute any-more now is it? I'm assuming he is married. he is someone else's husband. she deserves his 'manly curiosity' and you should respect that. I have had men show me more interest than appropriate and I can tell you now that I steer away from them.

Dandelion1

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 12:53 pm

Merrymom wrote:

I don't think it's ok. Just imagine your dh saying this to another woman. Would you be ok with it? What makes it ok just because he's a rav/rabbi? I think it's creepy.

The difference is that a Rav is in a position often to be a mentor, a guide, someone who reaches out and inspires. Your garden variety dh is not in this position, and thus it would be odd and inappropriate for him to engage this way with a random woman. For a rav who goes above and beyond, and gets to know his congregants in a warm and supportive way, this type of statement can certainly be made in an appropriate way. It is a question of what sort of rav you want, and what sort of rav/congregant relationship you are looking for.

amother

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 3:11 pm

ElTam wrote:

MBV, I was assuming, since this is imamother, that he is speaking to a married woman, not a girl. If my rav said that to my DD, it would not faze me. If he said it to me, I would find it inappropriate.

there's not much difference because even if the young woman is married, her rabbi is not being flirtatious in any way, he's not "coming on to her", he's just paying her a compliment (possibly to also lift her spirits) and that's where it ends. I don't see how it is different from a father complimenting his daughter or a brother saying something nice to his sister or a woman's friend who is male paying her a compliment. I have been a member of my shul since a child and the rabbi sometimes says nice things to me, for example when I did something recently which was a big mitzvah he said to me, "I'm very proud of you" - is that ok?
saying you have a beautiful smile is really similar to saying "you're a very sweet person". The only reason I can think why some rabbis probably wouldn't say that is just because they might think it would lead the woman to think he fancies her (especially if she is young), when in fact he just recognized the beauty of her smile, something which touches everyone.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 3:52 pm

ElTam wrote:

I was also assuming a married woman.

Eta I think you might have misunderstood when I wrote senior project. I meant senior citizens lol. Sorry, I was typing quickly.

amother

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 4:19 pm

My husband is a rabbi and I can assure you that he would not say this to ANY congregant.
It would just not be how he approaches his job- which is in a caring, yet serious and professional way.
Especially with women he is careful not to joke around, bc he might get quoted on Imamother the next day! Rolling Eyes

And BTW as a rebbetzin I do not generally comment on my congregants' appearance or dress bc that is not the way I want to steer the conversation- they can always talk about fashion and shopping with their friends. IMO Rabbi and rebbetzin is more of a mentor role - we are not our congregants' buddy-wuddies.

mirror

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 9:38 pm

amother wrote:

I am so jealous of you. Exploding anger

amother

Sun, Sep 23 2012, 8:31 am

Would it be weird to you, if someone said that to you who wasn't a rabbi?

If he isn't flirting, it would be okay.

If she is someone who is insecure or who has a low self image, then he may be trying to strengthen her, in which case it would be admirable.

markmywords

Sun, Sep 23 2012, 9:20 am

I think if you have to ask the question it's probably not ok.
A rabbi is not your mother who should be pointing out your positive physical traits.
Imagine the klausenberger rebbi or someone of that stature saying to a woman "you have a radiant smile". It just doesn't pass.