Diet/OA Question? End of my rope.

chani8

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 8:59 am

ChossidMom wrote:

chani8 wrote:

I'm a 12 step fan, but from what you describe as the rules for OA, those sound harsh.

The 12 steps are great. What I described is not OA rules but rules of CEA HOW. CEA HOW is very harsh. When you're "abstinent" and doing well, they love you, adore you and let you share, lead meetings etc. If you "slip" and break your abstinence and do not have 30 days abstinence - sit down and shut up because noone wants to hear what you have to say (because you may "hurt their Program" and it's all about me first).

Sounds dysfunctional to me.

Tova

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:00 am

You can certainly disagree with anything I wrote, sure.
If you read AA numerous times, what's the chiddush in what I am saying? In other words, you can disagree with it (the book) but surely you won't disagree - if you read it and remember it - that AA blue book is a textbook for how people can follow the path of the original 100 and recover from alcoholism (insert your complusion). I'm confused what you think I'm being mechadesh that it's the biggest lie you ever heard.

[I ONLY listen to meetings - online mostly - where people identify themselves as recovered. I agree with you that prominent in OA meetings is where people say they are "recovering" or will never recover, and that's a sign to me to stay away as they are not working the steps where the true recovery is. Unfortunately OA has experienced much less success than AA due to the turn away from the steps and the focus on the tools as the ikkar.]

Anyways, no point in debating this and I certainly have no need to be right here. I only jumped in for others who want to contact me to get more info and my experiences.

ChossidMom

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:07 am

chani8 wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

chani8 wrote:

I'm a 12 step fan, but from what you describe as the rules for OA, those sound harsh.

Sounds dysfunctional to me.

I'll tell you how dysfunctional it is. It was so dysfunctional that when I lead a meeting in my city once (a very small meeting), I insulted someone in front of everyone by not letting her READ something called "THE TOOLS" out loud because according to HOW rules, if you don't have 30 days of abstinence you may not read "The tools". I have regrets till this day that I embarrassed her in front of the other women. I actually called her a few years ago to apologize. At the time I thought I was such a great group "secretary" because I was so makpid on following the frickin' rules. Can you believe it? Rules come before halbanat panim? Oy, I cringe at the memory.

In my day there were no online meetings. We got to see the faces of the people who were claiming to be released of the obsession etc. Online people can make alot of claims. But when you actually know the people and meet them at simchas and other places, you tend to find out the truth about their recovery. You can also tell about a person if their behavior is normative or not. Keeping to the rules by embarrassing someone publicly - not normative. That's dysfunctional. HOW created an environment that fostered this despicable behavior in a normal (if I may say so myself), non hung up person like me! I suggest that everyone beware of CEA HOW not matter how much "recovery" and claims of recovery that they see there.

chani8

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:12 am

ChossidMom wrote:

chani8 wrote:

ChossidMom wrote:

chani8 wrote:

I'm a 12 step fan, but from what you describe as the rules for OA, those sound harsh.

Sounds dysfunctional to me.

Your pain comes thru. I'm so sorry that happened. Crying

I totally understand the strength of your opinion now.

ChossidMom

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:13 am

amother wrote:

OP, I didn't read all the posts. But read the book the 7 Secrets of Slim People and/or Intuitive Eating (they're similar, the 7 secrets is a little more user friendly).

http://www.amazon.com/The-Seve.....eople

http://www.amazon.com/Intuitiv.....ating

I actually love this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Habi.....eople

I found Intuitive Eating to be fairly useless although it was a good read. Also, the Beck Diet Plan is a great book which can help with any diet.

Tova

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:18 am

chani8 wrote:

Tova wrote:

[To be clear, anything I ever wrote in this thread has to do with a program that follows the AA book. Zehu. No other rules, no HOW's IF's AND's or BUT's :-).]

Thanks for clarifying that. I have been in 12 step groups that veered away from the steps, and they tended to be problematic. The old fashioned 12 steps are priceless, for whatever ails you.

A million percent.
Wish I could like it more than once.

chani8

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:21 am

After looking at the book recommendation on this thread, I just have to say it. My body lies to me!! It tells me that I am hungry, sometimes just a short while after I've eaten. Because, (and this took me years to figure out, and DH's new diabetes) when blood sugar goes up and down, it creates hunger pains. And when my blood sugar would go down, I'd have to eat, whatever was quick and easy (and usually fattening).

Now that I've figured out how to stabilize my blood sugar, my stomach rarely lies to me, and I can go 4 hours without eating, with no 'low blood sugar binging'.

I highly recommend the Atkins Stage 2 diet, with the addition of monitoring calories and fat, and for ruchnious purposes, permitting challah on shobbos.

chani8

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:57 am

amother wrote:

chani8 wrote:

I'm a 12 step fan, but from what you describe as the rules for OA, those sound harsh.

What cm is describing is offshoot of OA and is harsh.
For those that are mainstream Tova hit all the points.
For me it brought G-d (my Higher Power) and the Torah
so much into my focus. For that alone it was worth it.

I started my tshuva with the 12 steps. That was the turning point of my life, turning my life over to my Higher Power. Before that, I couldn't even say the word "G-d".

Tova

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 9:59 am

ChossidMom wrote:

Psychic change? Oh please. Sure, I used to come home from meetings on a spiritual high. That was when I was abstinent and allowed to participate actively. If I was ch"v not abstinent or didn't have my "30 days" (in CEA HOW) it was not nearly as wonderful.

I wasn't really going to respond further once I made my point and took the huge step of posting non-anon to say that this program is my lifeline and my path to freedom and my relationship with Hashem. And I'm open to anyone that wants to contact me to further discuss. But I just want to circle back to this point from CM's post and clarify. Psychic change - this really means changing and getting rid of our bad middos. That makes us different people. L'havdil our gedolim were not born tzaddikim but worked on themselves in X,Y,Z. It's a program of mussar. Rav Yisroel (Salanter) says that changing a middah is the hardest thing someone can do. The 12 steps give direction to this. I now KNOW what my "defects of character are." I have a simple - not easy - program to follow to get rid of them (does not mean I'll be perfect of course). It's working on our middos, getting rid of the "bondage of self," giving up control, not always needing to be right. It's repairing relationships. It's not just saying it it's doing it (chaper called "into action."). It doesn't take years to do. It's a process that can be completed in months (often before one even loses all the weight they need to lose). It has nothing to do with a "spiritual high," at least the way you wrote it or the number of days I stayed abstinent. It has to do with working the steps (not to sound like a broken record).

amother

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 11:16 am

chocolate moose wrote:

you need the right dr and success doesn't happen overnight

You're right, I do. My doctor doesn't take me seriously, my endocrinologist found nothing, and my dietician told me I must eat more.

Success doesn't happen overnight. I've been dieting for 20 years now, no sugar, flour, starch and limited fat, dairy, and ultra limited calories for at least 3 1/2 years now.

amother

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 12:30 pm

Hi I am a dietitian. Here is what I would say:
1) if you stopped exercising, you will not be able to tell if the new food plan is working for you because you are not expending those extra calories like you usually were on the lower calorie diet. You need to keep up the exercise and definitely increase it to lose weight if you are finding that you are at a plateau (which you said you are at 210lb)
2) you were not eating enough, hopefully this new OA plan has enough food. I would recommend you eat every three hours to keep your metabolism going. Once you do not eat for a few hours your metabolism goes into sleep mode and burns alot less calories. Take the healthy diet plan and make sure that you are not eating breakfast at 8 and then lunch at 2 with nothing in between.
3) you should only be drinking water. You should drink alot throughout the day as it will increase your metabolism as well. Obviously juices and sodas have calories and diet drinks will increase you cravings for sweets so stay away.
I would say if you do these three things your weight should start to decrease.
Hatzlacha!

black sheep

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 12:48 pm

I have a friend who is in the exact same situation as you, OP! the only reason I know you aren't her is because she isn't married. but she is about 210 pounds, doesn't eat much, and exercises. she is convinced that there is something wrong with her metabolism and has been to many doctors and nutritionists and endocrinologists and has testing done, and in the end nothing shows up and they tell her just keep trying with diet and exercise.

anyway, a few points of advice:
1. have you had your thyroid checked?
2. you need to eat more calories, but make them mostly vegetables and protein. have you tried atkins? the one diet my friend loses weight on is atkins, but she usually gains it back because she doesn't stick to it. if you can try to stick to it, it might help.
3. eat more in the morning, less as the day goes on. 6 almonds and coffee is barely a breakfast, and your body starts the day in starvation mode. this makes your body hold onto every calorie and you will lose no weight. not to mention that it isn't healthy. start the day instead with a 300-400 calorie breakfast of eggs or cottage cheese or some other protein. your body will say, oh hey, food is plentiful, and it will start burining calories and burn more throughout the day. as the day goes on, taper off and eat less at each meal. dinner can be a few almonds as long as you aren't hungrier, but I think ideally every meal should be at least 300 calories and feel sort of satisfying, even if it is mostly zero calorie vegetables and a protein.

my friend gave up on dieting and decided instead to focus on eating healthy for her body. she works out every day, and eats mostly veges and protein at every meal. she has been doing this for a few years, and even though she barely lost any weight, she just looks much better, her skin glows and she seems happier. I really think that is key for everyone, focus on healthy eating rather than weight loss. and the weight might just finally come off.

spring13

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 1:16 pm

I've been reading stuff lately about the Paleo diet, and while I don't think eliminating entire food groups is necessary in general, I can see how it's an essentially healthy way to eat, and I like that it doesn't restrict calories or portion sizes at all: the thing is to eat the right foods. I'm considering making some major moves towards a whole-food diet. Might be something for you to research, at least the concept, if what you've been doing til now isn't working.

http://whole9life.com/2012/08/.....gram/