How to nicely tell family to dress tznius for simcha

turca

Sun, Mar 10 2013, 9:35 pm

Hum... honestly I would leave as it is. I m not sure what type of simcha is that, but I think its easier to explain to the other side ( in laws???) That u have relatives like x y z etc. My mother wears only skirts but she doesn't cover her hair snd she shows her necklace bones. I have cousins that wear pants. They all keep shabbat, kosher etc. I just can't tell them how to dress. I think its time for some ppl that called themselves "frum" to understand that not everybody is like them

amother

Sun, Mar 10 2013, 9:51 pm

Peanut2 wrote:

But some of these relatives are (or think they are) dressing in accordance with Orthodox tradition.

What do you mean by short skirts without stocking? Above or below the knee?

I think you can add a note, maybe where you send the directions, and state "Please dress modestly in accordance with Orthodox tradition." But they may still wear wraps and show cleavage.

If they are wearing wraps they think they are being respectful. It's tough to be where you are. Sorry OP.

The skirts are truly mini skirts and way above the knee.

amother

Sun, Mar 10 2013, 10:08 pm

turca wrote:

The problem is the vast majority of the guests are uncomfortable. I can't change the attitudes of everyone. When my non-tznius relatives make simchas we grin and bear it.

No one is noticing necklace bones or urging those that don't cover their hair to cover. It is the high skirts and cleavage that is all I want addressed because of the issues created.

Sun, Mar 10 2013, 10:25 pm

amother wrote:

turca wrote:

All right, so you have identified your priorities. How about "female guests are respectfully requested to wear dresses covering the knee and cleavage. Thank you." Or "below-knee dresses." Figuring out an elegant way of saying "not low-cut" is more challenging.

Of course someone might show up with a dress covering the chest and knees with big cut-outs around the midriff, but what can you do...

EsaEinai

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 12:25 am

I can totally relate to OPs dilemma. My family is also in the frum-ish realm but doesn't keep the laws of tznius. My kids go to a chassidish school and I would not be able to have my family dress in their regular attire in the presence of anyone in our community/school.

I am the non confrontational type and I could just see myself saying "you know the school has strict rules about tznius etc so were asking everyone to wear skirts below the knees, tops that cover the collar bone, etc...

I really wouldn't want to offend any family members or friends because in theory It doesn't affect me and I want everyone to feel comfortable around me. But realistically, how people dress in my home and at simchas does affect me. We have not-yet religious guests over our house all the time. My husband sees them, my children see them, etc. I would like to be the type of person who can balance sensitivity towards others with a strong belief in my own principles and values. I would love to find a way to tell all the people who frequent my home in general In a kind and gentle way something along the lines of "we love spending time with you and value having you in our home, but ask that all our family/friends/guests dress in accordance with the halachot of tznius".

Until then... I'll probably "blame" the school Wink

amother

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 12:41 am

EsaEinai wrote:

OP here: thank you for understanding. Can I really say the schools have strict rules about the way guests dress for simchas? I would still need to phrase it correctly. I don't know if this matters but the frum guests all send to private schools.

People are still talking about the last simcha and this is adding stress. Why would a guest even want to give/have a moments discomfort?

Learning

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 12:52 am

amother wrote:

EsaEinai wrote:

I think they want to make a statement.

amother

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 1:30 am

shlomit wrote:

amother wrote:

EsaEinai wrote:

I think they want to make a statement.

They dress like this whenever I see them at simchas. Some of the ladies/girls wear pants although not around me. I get lots of used clothing which contains short skirts, low tops and pants so I don't think it is a statement for me. This is how they dress.

The non-frum ones might not have any tznius clothes but I would think the frum ones should have something suitable.

EsaEinai

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 1:35 am

I don't know if you could blame the schools, lol, I certainly can! But in all seriousness, you have to choose between the short long road and the long short road. The short long road is my usual tactic - ie "the kallahs side insists that everyone be dressed modestly..." so it's easier in the short run but in the long run its a mess. The long short road is to carefully and sensitively explain that you are uncomfortable with people dressed immodestly at your affairs and to set a precedent for all future simchas. I think the key is to show lots of love and warmth and never judge. We have to do our Hishtadlus and Hashem will determine how it will work out.

I remember when my oldest was in a very frum gan and they had a class performance that my mother wanted to come watch with me. I was so embarrassed by the thought of going with my mother in her low cut tank top and jeans with a tiny cardigan and skirt on top. I finally came out and said mommy I'd love for you to come, but can you make sure to wear a high cut shirt? she totally understood and dressed in accordance!

Speak from your heart and it will enter into their hearts.

amother

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 1:40 am

shlomit wrote:

If the woman sitting behind a big and closed machizta it won't be a big problem. Even at the chupa put up a huge mechitza.

They make other women uncomfortable and I would have to get people to police the machitzta. This is so unfair.

The ones that are still talking about the last simcha are women. IDK what the men discuss about them.

I really need a nice way to have them dress appropriately for the simcha.

amother

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 1:50 am

EsaEinai wrote:

I guess I must then speak to each one rather than adress it in the invite. It would be so much easier in the invitation. I really dread this.

Isramom8

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 2:10 am

I understand that you have an issue here. But you also need to understand how many people dress nowadays. To them, they "are" dressing with tzniut, like other Orthodox women they know.

Therefore you can't use words like "tznius" and "Orthodox". You may need to stress that this will be "an extremely frum simcha, where all the women are expected to be super covered up". Blame it on the chosson, the kallah, the school, the in-laws, whoever - because it will make them happy and this is how they want their event to be run.

DrMom

Mon, Mar 11 2013, 3:46 am

amother wrote:

... FTR my relatives are FFB which IMO makes this even more awkward. The men all wear kippas and the women are aware of tznius standards. That some choose not to adhere to them is the problem.

If they know the "rules," then it seems it should be easier because they will understand exactly what you are asking if you request they "dress in accordance with Orthodox tradition" (or however you phrase it).

At your previous simchas, when they dressed in a way you found distracting, you didn't ask them to specifically dress tznua, did you?