Twenty something ds dreading Seder

hop613

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 6:50 am

skcomputer wrote:

OP - your family is the luckiest family in the world. You could have been writing a post about a son who is addicted to drugs, alcohol and whose shiksa girlfriend is pregnant. Your son came back. Furthermore, your son is being honest and truthful with you about his feelings. What more could you ask for???

^THAT

DO you know how rare this sounds??? He is openly willing to admit that he came back to live the way he was raised. That's his personal yetzias mitzrayim, and that's what pesach is about. If your DH can't understand or realize this, he needs someone to set him straight. Is there anyone he will listen to?

cookiecutter

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 9:48 am

Your son is in his twenties. Who can force him to go to the Seder? Also, it's not Torah MiSinai that a seder has to last until 3 am. If an important guest at the seder needs it to be shortened, you shorten it. What would you do if there was a respected person who needed to be hosted but also needed the seder to end early? And how important is it that your son enjoy the seder and have a good relationship with you? I think it's simple math.

thatgirl

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 10:01 am

Tell him he is free to have his seder somewhere else but it wouldnt be the same without him at home. You can tell him its ok if he goes at his own pace.. or maye he can invite a friend over?

ValleyMom

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 10:20 am

I am blown away by all the compassion of the women on this site. Honestly, when I originally read the OP's post I was anxious that everyone would suggest that the dad is right, the son is evil and he should be forced to sit through the seder.

Frankly, there were YEARS that I thought the seder was a BIG fat yawn. My dad insisted that there be multiple divrei torah for every five lines of the Haggadah. We NEVER ate before 11:30, then we rushed to gulp down the meal before midnight--leaving my sister and I to do the MOUNTAINS of dishes till 3:00 AM.

If you have friends who are more liberal/modern orthodox (like myself) ask if he could join them for the seder. We have a blast at our seder. I have a hysterical songbook that I printed out with songs from the internet for pesach. There are tons of funny parodies about pesach. My husband has a whole slew of gags for encouraging the children to be actively engaged. AND every child that answers a question at the seder gets a sticker on the back of their Hagaddah and prizes are distributed while we eat dinner. REMEMBER...originally the seder was developed with keeping the children interested and active participants.

I suggest you ask your son to help assemble a seder kit to make tyhe seder more FUN and ACTIVELY ENGAGING. We do all sorts of fun stuff. We wear animal masks for the makos, we throw ping pong balls around the table for hail. We throw little polastic frogs, spiders, ants etc. We wear dark sunglasses (think rayban/blues brothers) for "darkness"... No seder is complete without someone ending up with some plastic bugs or a pingpong ball in their glass of wine/grapejuice. We all yell: "extra points!"

Growing up our seder was painfully boring. I promised myself as a child that when I grew up I would make sure that my children would ENJOY and LOOK FORWARD to our seder. I hope I have accomplished this.

I do know my kids don't groan when we say come to the table we are ready to start.

Good luck to you OP.
I am thrilled your child is open about his feelings. EMBRACE him for the unique individual he is.
And tell your uptight husband to back off if he wants to continue to develop a loving relationship with his son.

ValleyMom

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 10:21 am

sorry for the typos....

Raisin

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 10:25 am

can he invite a friend?

chani8

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 10:32 am

ValleyMom, great post!!! We also have a great time with the makkos, and singing. Do you have any links to anything fun/funny for teens?

Isramom8

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 11:01 am

Yes, let him run part of it.

amother

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 11:22 am

ValleyMom wrote:

I suggest you ask your son to help assemble a seder kit to make tyhe seder more FUN and ACTIVELY ENGAGING. We do all sorts of fun stuff. We wear animal masks for the makos, we throw ping pong balls around the table for hail. We throw little polastic frogs, spiders, ants etc. We wear dark sunglasses (think rayban/blues brothers) for "darkness"... No seder is complete without someone ending up with some plastic bugs or a pingpong ball in their glass of wine/grapejuice. We all yell: "extra points!"

Can I come to your seder PLEASE?!

willow

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 12:55 pm

I love the ideas on here. Also try to keep it shorter no need to drag it on. Make it interesting and keep him involved.

Shuly

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 3:44 pm

I don't think I'll ever forget the seder I went to in seminary. One son came to the table in a hooded sweatshirt and the father totally flipped and screamed at his son that he is not allowed to come to the seder wearing that. The kid stormed out, screaming that he is not interested in going to their seder anyway and only came back home, when his mother went to speak to him quietly and calmed him down.

Talk about an uncomfortable situation for the seminary girls eating there...

I believe the seder should be an exciting kid-friendly event. Can you son write up trivia questions to ask everyone? Put him in charge of giving out prizes to everyone who knows the answers!

If your husband won't go for that and is anything like the father at the seder I went to, definitely send your son to another seder.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 6:59 pm

OP says"... ds was pretty far otd behind our backs but pretty much came back and lives at home. He feels there is nothing better out there so might as well go along with the way of life that he was raised with. Apparantly, he has even conviced other at risk kids not to go otd. He will sometimes go to shul but doesn't daven with the minyan. "

This son is a very holy dude, see bolded. I am holding my tongue with both hands about the father. This son may be one of the big souls of his generation.

The answers here are very good.

Isramom8

Tue, Mar 19 2013, 8:58 pm

Are you by any chance in Israel? If you are, it would be a pleasure for us to host your son at our seder. He can participate as much or as little as he wants, chill on the couch, etc. We do the fun stuff by the makkos, and in general, my DH tries to convey joy. People can also snack before shulchan orech as needed.

Seriously, he can sleep over, go to shul or not as he feels like, and just make himself at home. We have a couple of sons a little younger than him who will get him. And a few "interesting" guests. Smile

amother

Wed, Mar 20 2013, 10:17 am

OP here,
Thank you to all the smart women who gave such great suggestions and encouragement. I'm not sure which (if any) will actually work for us. I suggested bringing a friend but he couldn't think of anyone. I do think it's more of an ADHD thing - he can't stand being bored. He does go to school so he's not just sitting around depressed doing nothing. He has been a big help cleaning for Pesach. I wish the Hagaddah interested him Sad

.
DH didn't call him a rasha to his face and is very nice to him in general so I would say on the surface they get along. They are very similar in temperment but dh is very frum and is very hurt by ds not "feeling it". He does rush the seder for the sake of all the kids but it does take time. I will ask dh to implement saving explainations for shulchan orech and hope that will help.
We're in a smallish community USA so there aren't any communal seders, although I think that would have been a great idea - up his alley.
I do feel grateful and thank Hashem that he is holding where he is and daven for further growth!

imasinger

Wed, Mar 20 2013, 10:23 am

OP, could you please pm me if you get a chance? I have some questions I don't want to post.

Wishing every one in your family a wonderful Pesach.

Here are some funny seder songs:

http://holidays.juda.com/passover-songs.shtml

Funny Passover Songs
(sung to the tune of "There's no Business like Show business")
by Rabbi Dan Liben

There's no seder like our seder,
There's no seder I know.
Everything about it is halachic
Nothing that the Torah won't allow.
Listen how we read the whole Haggadah
It's all in Hebrew
'Cause we know how.
There's no Seder like our seder,
We tell a tale that is swell:
Moses took the people out into the heat
They baked the matzah
While on their feet
Now isn't that a story
That just can't be beat?
Let's go on with the show!

Take Us out of Egypt
(sung to the tune of Take me out to the ball game")

Take us out of Egpyt
Free us from slavery
Bake us some matzah in a haste
Don't worry 'bout flavor--
Give no thought to taste.
Oh it's rush, rush, rush, to the Red Sea
If we don't cross it's a shame
For it's ten plagues,
Down and you're out
At the Pessah history game.
Elijah
(to the tune of "Maria")

by Rabbi Dan Liben

Elijah!
I just saw the prophet Elijah.
And suddenly that name
Will never sound the same to me.
Elijah!
He came to our seder
Elijah!
He had his cup of wine,
But could not stay to dine
This year--
Elijah!
For your message all Jews are waiting:
That the time's come for peace
and not hating--
Elijah--
Next year we'll be waiting.
Elijah!
Just a Tad of Haroset
(to the tune of "Just a spoon full of sugar")

Chorus:
Just a tad of haroset helps the bitter herbs
go down,
The bitter herbs go down, the bitter herbs go down.
Just a tad of Charoset helps the bitter herbs
go down,
In the most disguising way.

Oh, back in Egypt long ago,
The Jews were slaves under Pharaoh
They sweat and toiled and labored
through the day.
So when we gather Pesach night,
We do what we think right.
Maror, we chew,
To feel what they went through.

Chorus

So after years of slavery
They saw no chance of being free.
Their suffering was the only life they knew.
But baby Moses grew up tall,
And said he'd save them all.
He did, and yet,
We swear we won't forget.
That......

Chorus

While the Maror is being passed,
We all refill our water glass,
Preparing for the taste that turns us red.
Although Maror seems full of minuses,
It sure does clear our sinuses.
But what's to do?
It's hard to be a Jew!!!

Chorus
Les Miselijah
(to the tune of "Do you hear the people Sing" from Les Miserables)

Do you hear the doorbell ring,
And it's a little after ten?
It can only be Elijah
Come to take a sip again.
He is feeling pretty fine
But in his head a screw is loose.
So perhaps instead of wine
We should only give him juice.
Same time next year
(to the tune of "Makin' Whoopee")

Another Pesach, another year,
The family seder with near and dear...
Our faces shining,
All thoughts of dining
Are put on hold now.
We hear four questions,
The answer given
Recalls the Jews from Egypt driven.
The khrain is bitter, (haroset better!)
Please pass the matzah.
Why is this evening different
This year the Jews all over
Are free to perform the rites.
A gorgeous dinner--who can deny it--
Won't make us thinner, to hell with diet!
It's such great cooking...
and no one's looking,
So just enjoy it.
Moving along at steady clip
Elijah enters, and takes a sip;
And then the singing with voices ringing
Our laughter mingling.
When singing about Had Gadya.
Watch close or your place you'll lose,
For Ehad Mi Yode'a:
Which tune shall we use?
We pray next Pessah
We'll all be here.
It's a tradition...
Same time next year...
So fill it up now, the final cup now,
Next year at ____________
The Ballad of the Four Sons
(to the tune of "Clementine")
wriiten by Ben Aronin in 1948

Said the father to his children,
"At the seder you will dine,
You will eat your fill of matzah,
You will drink four cups of wine."

Now this father had no daughters,
But his sons they numbered four.
One was wise and one was wicked,
One was simple and a bore.

And the fourth was sweet and winsome,
he was young and he was small.
While his brothers asked the questions
he could scarcely speak at all.

Said the wise one to his father
"Would you please explain the laws?
Of the customs of the seder
Will you please explain the cause?"

And the father proudly answered,
"As our fathers ate in speed,
Ate the paschal lamb 'ere midnight
And from slavery were freed."

So we follow their example
And 'ere midnight must complete
All the seder and we should not
After 12 remain to eat.

Then did sneer the son so wicked
"What does all this mean to you?"
And the father's voice was bitter
As his grief and anger grew.

"If you yourself don't consider
As son of Israel,
Then for you this has no meaning
You could be a slave as well."

Then the simple son said simply
"What is this," and quietly
The good father told his offspring
"We were freed from slavery."

But the youngest son was silent
For he could not ask at all.
His bright eyes were bright with wonder
As his father told him all.

My dear children, heed the lesson
and remember evermore
What the father told his children
Told his sons that numbered four.
A Few of My Favorite Things
(Sung to the tune of "These are a few of my favorite things")

Cleaning and cooking and so many dishes
Out with the hametz, no pasta, no knishes
Fish that's gefillted, horseradish that stings
These are a few of our passover things.

Matzoh and karpas and chopped up haroset
Shankbones and kiddish and yiddish neuroses
Tante who kvetches and uncle who sings
These are a few of our Passover things.

Motzi and maror and trouble with Pharoahs
Famines and locusts and slaves with wheelbarrows
Matzah balls floating and eggshell that cling
These are a few of our Passover things.

When the plagues strike
When the lice bite
When we're feeling sad
We simply remember our Passover things
And then we don't feel so bad.

http://www.jr.co.il/humor/passover.htm

http://www.jr.co.il/humor/pass01.txt

. Paraoh doesn't Pay
(To the tune of "I've been Working on the Railroad")

We've been working on these buildings;
Pharaoh doesn't pay.
We've been doing what he tells us
Mixing straw with clay.
Can't you hear the master calling,
"Hurry up, make that brick!"
Can't you feel the master whip us
'Til we're feeling sick.

Oy vay, it's a mess,
A terrible distress,
Oy vay, it's a mess for Jews, us Jews.

Moshe's in the palace with Pharaoh,
Warning of all God's clout, clout, clout.
Moshe's in the palace with Pharaoh,
And God's gonna get us out!

We're singing . . . .
Fee, Fi, Fiddely eye oh,
Make our matzahs "to go" oh oh oh.
Fee, Fi, Fiddely eye oh,
Stick it to the ol' Pharaoh!

http://sederfun.com/images/Silly%20Songs.pdf

Don’t Sit on the Afikomen
To the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic
My Dad at every Seder breaks a Matza piece in two
And hides the Afikomen half —
A game for me and you
Find it, hold it for a ransom
for the Seder isn’t through
’till the Afikomen’s gone.
Chorus:
Don’t sit on the Afikomen.
Don’t sit on the Afikomen.
Don’t sit on the Afikomen.
Or the Meal will last all night
One year Daddy hid it ’neath a pillow on a chair
But just as I raced over,
my Aunt Sophie sat down there
She threw herself upon it —
Awful crunching filled the air
And crumbs flew all around. Chorus
There were matza crumbs all over —
Oh, it was a messy sight
We swept up all the pieces
though it took us half the night
So, if you want your seder ending
sooner than dawn’s light,
Don’t sit on the Afiko-o-men Chorus

imasinger

Thu, Mar 21 2013, 1:48 pm

Deleted double post

Last edited by imasinger on Thu, Mar 21 2013, 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Thu, Mar 21 2013, 1:59 pm

tune of found a peanut last night [oy vey] Music

they are so funny I need a copy
even I can sing in tune
while we eat marror with the matza
after cleaning the whole room

CatLady

Thu, Mar 21 2013, 2:01 pm

We sing Dayenu to the tune of "We Will Rock You". Along with the boom-boom-clap-boom-boom-clap rhythmic banging.

As for what would make a 20-something man not dread the seder, I don't think any amount of classic rock would quite cut it, but playing the "do it for the sake of The Family" card is always a good way to go IME.

amother

Thu, Mar 21 2013, 2:51 pm

CatLady wrote:

As for what would make a 20-something man not dread the seder, I don't think any amount of classic rock would quite cut it, but playing the "do it for the sake of The Family" card is always a good way to go IME.

Ah, the guilt trip card. It might work once or twice but then it will most likely backfire and he will resent you even more. Besides, if he is only going to the seder because you guilt tripped him into it then is it actually considered to be fulfilling the mitzvah of pesach? Not so sure about that..