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Forum -> Hobbies, Crafts, and Collections -> The Imamother Writing Club

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fromthedepths

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 12:19 pm

That's really scary! So somebody can just destroy another person's life simply by an anonymous email??

Miri1

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

I know of someone who was getting divorced, and she wanted to have her ex totally out her life and her children's life...so she accused him of molesting the kids. He had a really hard time proving his innocence, had to have the kids psychologically tested which was hard on them and he didn't want to put them thru it.....

The things people do to get other people....we need Moshiach really badly.

Did she tell you that or did he tell you that?

MaBelleVie

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 1:18 pm

fromthedepths wrote:

That's really scary! So somebody can just destroy another person's life simply by an anonymous email??

Yes. Its sick that people exploit something that's already so tragic and horrible.

amother

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 1:39 pm

fromthedepths wrote:

That's really scary! So somebody can just destroy another person's life simply by an anonymous email??

It would be scary if it were true. But its not.

Someone mentioned a blackmail situation. In that circumstance, you call the police. Chances are, they will assist you in recording the conversation, and the blackmailer will be charged.

As to allegations of abuse, unfortunately, in a world in which rabbis and communities will shun you if you contact the police, there is little else out there. However, it is defamatory to say that someone is an alleged abuser is there are no allegations. So I seriously doubt that there is anyone out there who is just receiving letters saying "I heard that Shuley molested a boy," and then posts SHMUELY IS A CHILD MOLESTER, or even that Shmuley was accused.

Of course, people will tell you anything to justify their actions. Its up to you to evaluate whether they're lying.

mummiedearest

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 2:12 pm

op, what is this person's connection to the book you are working on? is this the one about depression? why do you need to contact him about this?

fromthedepths

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 2:18 pm

Yes, same book. Somebody told me that this rabbi is involved in mental health. Although I found nothing about mental health on his website. So I think I'm giving up on him. It's not really crucial to my book. And as it is, I think I've already had my fill of researching abuse allegations for this week Sad

mummiedearest

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 2:29 pm

does the rabbi do counseling of some sort? or does he pasken shailas that come up due to mental illness? if the former, I advise you stay away from him unless he is also a licensed therapist. you have to be careful about who you quote.

fromthedepths

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 3:44 pm

Not sure. Spiritual counseling was mentioned in passing. I think I'd rather stay away at this point.

As an aside, it turns out that there is such a thing as a degree in Pastoral Counseling. One of the rabbis I talked to is a hospital chaplain and has a Ph.D. in Pastoral Counseling. Obviously, he doesn't treat any medical conditions, but he's helped a lot of people cope emotionally with their medical conditions.

oliveoil

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 4:13 pm

fromthedepths wrote:

That's really scary! So somebody can just destroy another person's life simply by an anonymous email??

Unfortunately, with people becoming more comfortable talking about molestation (which is an excellent thing - don't get me wrong), comes the bad. It's becoming an easy thing to threaten someone with. And once an accusation is made, it can't just be undone even if that person is cleared. People will always look at them as a molester.

I know of several cases of false allegations and those peoples lives are now ruined forever.
A website like jewish community watch could be an excellent thing if it was done properly. Sadly, there is a vigilante behind it who is quick to post and accuse but slow to research and verify.

I don't know what the solution is.

amother

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 5:51 pm

oliveoil wrote:

fromthedepths wrote:

That's really scary! So somebody can just destroy another person's life simply by an anonymous email??

And the reason that this isn't lashon hara is ....

5*Mom

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 2:44 pm

amother wrote:

oliveoil wrote:

fromthedepths wrote:

That's really scary! So somebody can just destroy another person's life simply by an anonymous email??

And the reason that this isn't lashon hara is ....

...because it would be important for someone to whom the information is relevant to know that they must do their own research and verification before believing the information contained therein.

And the reason you are amother is...

m in Israel

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 9:03 pm

amother wrote:

fromthedepths wrote:

That's really scary! So somebody can just destroy another person's life simply by an anonymous email??

Unfortunately it is not so simple. In these areas, any publicity is bad publicity, so going to the police to report the blackmail is risking making a public scene which in reality is damaging to someone in Chinuch even if there is no accusation. Although in the case I mentioned earlier, that is sort of what happened. The individual being blackmailed told the blackmailer that if he would go through with his threats he would sue him. It seems that scared him off, as he didn't actually follow through with his threats.

However, your comment with regard to defamation is actually not true. The lawyer consulted in the above case said it is virtually impossible in the U.S. to win such a case because it is not enough to prove the information is false -- you must also prove malicious intent. IOW, if the website owner simply says he made a mistake or received faulty information, he has no criminal liability. It is up to the person being badmouthed to prove that the other person publicized this knowingly and with intention to harm.

So again, I hold by my original statement -- try to contact the site and find out what (if any) verification they do before posting someone's name. Some sites do great work -- but some are quite irresponsible in what they post.

amother

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 11:55 pm

I have spoken with the people behind jewish community watch and they do tons of research and have very strict criteria for posting people and they only post people who are still a threat.

I think that just writing off the website is an easy way for people to bury their head in the sand

fromthedepths

Mon, Sep 23 2013, 1:29 pm

I'm ready to scream. Or cry. Or both. I've sent my manuscript to several big rabbis for haskamos. One of the rabbis (and I mean really big) called me to tell me that a certain rabbi who I quote extensively in the book is "not a good person and has done some bad things and admitted it." Reading between the lines -- s-xual abuser. He is listed on Ad Kan, but I couldn't believe it when I saw it there. He's such a well known rabbis and writes amazing hashkafa books on emunah.

The rabbi who called me told me that he is not giving haskamos to any books that quote this person.

The manuscript is due right after Sukkos.

I guess I'm mostly venting. Or trying to make sense of a world gone crazy.

amother

Mon, Sep 23 2013, 2:35 pm

What Jewish community watch told you and what the truth is are unfortunately not one and the same. One of the people on there is someone I know personally and I have done my research as my children come in contact with him quite often. He openly admitted that he committed something MANY years ago. He did not deny it! But he is no longer a threat. He went immediately after and continues to go through therapy. He does not do anything that involves children without the permission of his therapist. Etc....he is willing to give the name of his therapists to anyone who want to inquire about him. Jewish community watch has made his life a misery.... They have blackmailed him, threatened him, lied to others etc... So relying on the information that they give you is not the best way to make a decision about a particular individual.

amother

Mon, Sep 23 2013, 3:10 pm

The Awareness Center is another site full of lies and unproven allegations, run by a lady with a bone to pick with rabbis. (This same lady claimed to be part of a jewish satanist cult growing up where she was forced to (if I remember correctly- have sx with her father) and eat her baby.)

If you read anything on there, remember that this lady's credibility is... 0.

fromthedepths

Mon, Sep 23 2013, 4:06 pm

Amother, could you pm me the name, to see if it's the same person?

fromthedepths

Tue, Sep 24 2013, 12:19 pm

I am so angry! I am ready to shred this person's books to pieces! Or burn them! I found 5 places in my manuscript where I rely on his chiddushim. Did I mention it's due two days after Sukkos?? I thought I was learning from his books. I thought it was Torah. I thought they were real chiddushim. I asked my Rav if this information about him invalidates his Torah, and he said yes. He said you don't learn Torah from a rasha. But how can a rasha write such amazing, deep, inspiring books? Are his ideas true or not? And what does this mean in terms of determining the objective truth?

My Rav is not the type to address my emotional reaction. He's too intellectual. Yes, he can help me go through the quotes and see if the same ideas are found anywhere else. But I'm too upset to do that right now.

I emailed the Rebbetzin who got me into his book in the first place. Haven't heard back. Probably because she doesn't check her email on chol hamoed. She's super chareidi. But somehow, that only makes me feel alone. Although I'm not sure what exactly I expect her to tell me. What can she possibly say? Either she knows, or she doesn't know and will be as shocked as I am. Or worse, she won't believe me.

amother

Tue, Sep 24 2013, 12:51 pm

amother wrote:

A family member of mine is going through the same thing right now. While the site may be good idea for those who are actively involved with children and there are multiple reports about their repeated offending, today, and are not being reported to the police. The method - how one person or the board of people he claims to have can make a decision based on gut feeling whether or not someone is a child predator, particularly when there is a professional involved who says otherwise, makes me very uneasy.

imamom7

Tue, Sep 24 2013, 8:06 pm

who is the rav that you asked for a haskama from? I have also wondered about whether the allegations are true and if I should read his books.

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