Person takes entire serving meant for the table - wwyd

mandksima

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 5:47 pm

FS, I swear you live in a different world than me. Your stories always leave me with my mouth hanging open in amazement.

Isramom8

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 5:53 pm

I like the suggestion of hardboiled eggs. I would like to think that almost all of us can boil up a few eggs before Shabbos, and if they don't get eaten eat them during the week.

I have no problem with the idea of serving egg salad at the Shabbos table, along with small portions of whatever meat hosts might run short on in an unforeseen situation, whether lamb, brisket or chicken shnitzel.

Can I stop feeling food insecure for all of us now? At wits end

Last edited by Isramom8 on Mon, Dec 02 2013, 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

sequoia

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 5:53 pm

Exactly! On the one hand you talk about staying THIN (though I think we should encourage our daughters to be FIT rather than thin. Some girls with boobs and butts won't be thin no matter, but they can sure as heck be fit with good exercise).

On the other hand the foods you describe are WAY more fattening than a piece of chicken!

And yes, encouraging a young teen to limit herself to salad at dinner is encouraging an eating disorder. If that's the way the young girls around you eat, that's bad.

amother

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 5:55 pm

Yeah, I also feel like I'm in a different world after reading this thread.
IMHO a person should only invite as many guests as he has the means for.
If there's chicken, then I'll make sure there's at least 2 pieces per person. Worse case scenario, we'll have leftovers to eat on Sunday & Monday.

freidasima

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 5:57 pm

Ok once again with feeling.

Amother above - the guests were NOT invited. They invited themselves. And no Sequoia, it's not really ok to throw out people like that....

Definitions - when I say humus I mean humus balls not the creamy stuff, what you americans call "chickpeas". That is "humus" in Hebrew as well as the creamy stuff which we do not go near. The fat content of humus balls (chickpeas) is low, they are chock full of protein.

Salad - the hebrew term "salatim", not necessarily lettuce and tomato american style. We make our salatim without added fats, no mayo, oil etc. so you get lots of veg, healthy veg, without it being fattening. A "big salad" includes a lot of stuff including chickpeas which is protien. That and piece of whole wheat challah is definitely a nice meal. And remember Barbara, it's not a persons ONLY food in a day, there is also breakfast and dinner that day, it's only one meal. Have you ever read the articles about how French women stay thin? There is a concept of "just skip over a meal". This is a lot healthier than that, eating a light meal like I mentioned. So understand that "salad" in israeli parlance is not just "green salad".

Table all the things I mentioned are CHEAP. Eggplant, burgul for tabouleh, potatoes, chickpeas are CHEAP. What is wrong with a piece of whole wheat challah? Full grain. Not junk. You can go to the shuk on friday afternoon as we used to when we were younger and as married dd still does at 3 PM and get a steal of fresh fruit and veg super duper cheap, kilos and kilos and kilos worth for a total of less than 10 shekel all told. All the salatim and sides that I mentioned didn't cost as much as ONE chicken thigh. Techina - buy techina golmit at the shuk and make your own like we do. Cheap. Mui Cheap. And as for your second statement about "not eating XYZ and fattening" reread - portion control. A bit of each thing. And Falafel balls are only fattening when fried, not baked if they are pure and without techina. It's the techina that is fattening and that you limit only to a teaspoon if you want to watch your weight, but it's good for the calcium.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:05 pm

sequoia wrote:

"Get out. We can't host you today. Kthnxbye."

"I'm sorry, we weren't expecting guests today."

What's really shocking me here is that FS stated that she didn't give a man dish to HER 9 MONTHS PREGNANT DAUGHTER IN LAW in order to feed these freeloaders.

Good heavens.

But yes, there have been times when my clueless child has shown up with a few too many spare kids. Or when the guests bring guests without mentioning it in advance. There was a memorable Shabbat when I had to squeeze in a salad-sized plate and a stool next to DH, and sit DS in a corner in a desk chair, so that we could at least make some pretense of being at the table. We scrounge. Cans of tuna and beans are opened, and something is concocted. Packaged lunch meat intended for next week's lunch is arranged on a platter. Most people have something in the cupboard or refrigerator that can stretch a meal without telling a pregnant woman that she can't have a piece of chicken. Then the main course is divided into smaller portions. (I'm going on the assumption that the main dish that FS brought to her DIL consisted of more than the exact number of chicken legs that can be eaten in 3 or 4 bites (FS description) as there were people, plus one extra for her son whom she expected to be particularly hungry.)

September June

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:10 pm

We had this discussion 2 years ago here.

Raisin

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:15 pm

sorry, that story is insane. And why exactly could the meat not have been cut into half slices? Why be embarrassed that you don't have enough food for UNINVITED guests?

And yes, pregnant women NEED protein and iron rich foods. Not 40 year old men. They can fill up on chummous. Or, the husband who thought it was ok to bring home 5 guests. He didn't realise there might not be enough food? he didn't notice his (pregnant!!!!) wife wasn't eating and offer her his portion? My husband would.

FS, produce can be a lot more expensive CHUL.

greenfire

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:17 pm

freidasima wrote:

Here's a situation that happened to my son just a short while ago. He and his wife were in shul, and we walked over to daven with them (a very very very long walk across the city) and be with them all day. His wife, our DIL was heavily pregnant and to give her a break, I asked her how many people were there for lunch and told her I would make the mains and dh would drive it over erev shabbos so that she wouldn't have to cook. She told me 8 people, all immediate family of ours and asked me to make just enough, no leftovers I won't go into why, it's a long story but I understood. She wanted meat so I counted out portions of meat so it would be enough plus a bit more, I figured that from all the walking dh and youngest ds coming with us would be ravenous and would enjoy the "bit more" if it was left. Well at their shul five - count them - five alter bochurs attached themselves to older ds who didn't know how to shake them off, they walked us all the way back from shul to his home and then proceeded,without an invitation, to come in "for a lechayim" and "you know what, can we stay for lunch as well? Everything smells so nice and we really didnt prepare anything at home"...

Oy vey. you should have seen the look on my DIL's face, poor thing. I think she would have rather given birth in the middle of the living room at that minute without a midwife, just to get those alter bochurim to leave. She started hinting broadly that she doesn't feel well, she may give birth any minute, and the bochurs, (we are talking 40 year olds G-d bless them) they wouldn't take a hint. It was obvious that the only way to get them to leave would be to throw them out physically and so my machatenister and I took charge and we plated it so that dil, she and I didn't take meat and the "bit extra" went to feed bochurs four and five....who sat around at the table eating contentedly and even asking for more. You should have seen my machatenister, she was the one to say straight out "there is no more" to which one of the bochurs came out with "you know, you should have made more, it was delicious, next shabbos make more for us, what time should we be here?"

your pregnant dil didn't eat so you could feed strangers ?!?!?! 40 year old - overgrown men ??? 4 year old kids could learn better manners ... seriously give everybody 1/2 as much meat and there would be enough to go around ... no seconds

Raisin

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:18 pm

September June wrote:

We had this discussion 2 years ago here.

Out of 182 respondants to the poll 2 said they would tell their daughters not to eat. That's approx 1%.

So FS is really 1 in a 100.

sequoia

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:20 pm

And you know what bothers me FS? You keep talking about girls being thin but some girls will never be thin. Now I am small-boned and flat chested and I have a small frame so I can be thin, definitely. But my friend with size G breasts? She works out with a personal trainer every single day and watches her diet like a hawk and she's one of the fittest people I know. But she's not thin and never will be because it's not her body type.

Oh and yeah. Your son should have let his pregnant wife have his portion.

Last edited by sequoia on Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Barbara

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:22 pm

Raisin wrote:

September June wrote:

We had this discussion 2 years ago here.

Out of 182 respondants to the poll 2 said they would tell their daughters not to eat. That's approx 1%.

So FS is really 1 in a 100.

But of course that's one of the many reasons we (well, at least I) adore FS. I may disagree with her on many things. but she is definitely one in a million. Heart

Barbara

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:30 pm

Ob the issue of young girls' weight, google some of the comments of the gorgeous -- inside and out -- Jennifer Lawrence. (And then if you want a good cry, find the video of her stepping off the red carpet and behind the barrier to greet a fan in a wheelchair.)

tsiggelle

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:35 pm

Deboned chicken can be served on a bed of rice or mashed potatoes etc.

sequoia

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:37 pm

Yes FS it IS ok to throw out rude inconsiderate people! Or rather not let them in in the first place.

oliveoil

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 10:31 pm

The deboned chicken could have mixed into the rice you mentioned. Presto - problem solved.

Frumdoc

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:22 am

freidasima wrote:

Frumdoc, good for you if this works for you.

But Question - you write "I have never appreciated my lifestyle so much, where I get to eat meat, sit at the table talking Torah rather than in the kitchen talking recipies...we call that chinuch... and the girls and women are allowed to eat protein and be larger than a size zero."

It's a bit insulting you know, to those women who PREFER to be in the kitchen talking recipies than at the table talking Torah. As if you are describing their CHOICES as if they are living in the middle ages. And I emphasize choices. There are whole worlds of frum women, most of whom I assume aren't participating in this thread because they are more chassidish or possibly Litvish-yeshivish, who may not talk recipies in the kitchen but would definitely prefer to talk with the girls and women about the issues in their lives - childrearing, housekeeping, mothering, etc. - than participate in a talk, at times quite esoteric, about this sugiya or that sugiya which they really aren't interested in. They are happy their men who have a chiyuv to learn torah, are doing so, but they really have enough busy stuff going on in their lives that keep them interested and don't find a lack in their lives to sit and discuss a sugiya at the table, particularly with a bunch of strangers, male guests etc.

"Allowed to eat protein" - what makes you think that girls aren't allowed anything? Who talks about "allow"? It is taught, not "allowed". This isn't a jail!! Would you say that a girl is not "allowed" to wipe her nose on her sleeve because her mother teaches her to use a napkin?

And more important, who was talking about protein? We were talking about a piece of chicken. AT a one time meal, not as a daily occurance. Why are some of you making this into a story as if this happens every day, and as if this is the only meal that the girls are eating all week long??!! What nonsense..

You know that there are other proteins and I specifically mentioned them already, and besides, we all know today that healthwise, western diet includes far too much animal based proteins. You know vegans live a very full life eating chumus, beans, rice etc. as proteins. It might be worth it for some people among you to widen their horizons and not limit themselves to thinking of chicken as their main protein all the time....and to remember that we are talking about a once in a blue moon situation that I discussed, not a regular occurance.

"Allowed....to be larger than a size zero" - you know? No one can force someone to be any size. But did it ever occur to you that girls looking for a shidduch who have eyes in their head know the score? That it is their choice to want to be slim because they want to get married? When handing out a shidduch resume actually one of the first questions that is asked about a girl today may be in some circles "what size is she" or in others to see a full body picture of the girl. Even in MO/DL circles. And girls know the guys want slim girls. Not necessarily a size zero or size two but slim. And a lot of girls, particularly the younger ones around here, are very slim. VERY slim. And that's what these guys seem to want to go out with. It's not about to change. The mothers teach the guys to want slim. The more modern guys are definitely influenced by the media that they see with very slim models and airbrushed and photoshopped and that's what they want to go out with? Shallow? Could be. But they equate slim with healthy and they are also afraid that if a girl isn't slim before, after having a few kids she is going to be heavy and they don't want heavy. Even if they are heavier themselves.

Again, may not be nice but it's a fact of life and the girls want to get married.

FS, I don't understand why you find my lifestyle so insulting. I never said I disapproved of your choices, I just said what is allowed and encouraged in mine.

So you said young girls have a piece of challah and fill up on salad, as well as multiple comments about the necessity for girls to be slim in your world. In mine, girls eat protein and cake and sweets sometimes, and we yoyo and we exercise and we diet and it is not as effective as eating salad, but getting married is more about who you are than what you look like. Not all men are terrified of a bit of flesh rather than skin and bone, BH.

And the fact that we are allowed to talk Torah with men doesn't mean everyone does or wants to. Conversation varies, but on shabbos, we work at not talking about recipes, housekeeping etc just like the men work at not talking about work etc. We all talk Torah, it is shabbos and that is our focus.

And as I'm veggie during the week, I know about plenty of non meat proteins, but you implied that wasn't what they were eating, and have since clarified that there is protein in your chareidi salad that we lack in ours. Sorry, if you had explained that earlier maybe it would be more understandable.

My point is just that in my world, women are allowed to do many things and I like that, and it doesn't mean we don't have respect for Torah and mitzvot, or that we don't respect our parents, and somehow you have taken offence. I don't get it. It wasn't an attack on your life choices, just a celebration of my own.

Last edited by Frumdoc on Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:28 am; edited 1 time in total

freidasima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:27 am

It was meat, not chicken.
Everyone got one slice, meat that I make is really expensive, even for me, we only use fresh schita and organic. Try prices like 250 shekel a kilo. Yes you read it right. The "extras" that I had made for my dh, and especially son were used for the "guests".

My dil - you make me laugh as you don't know her. She would personally choose plant based protein over any vegetable based protein anytime. It was no hardship for her and truthfully? A lot of you overrate meat and animal based proteins in general. Yes I know americans are used to eating lots of meat but here? There are many families that are not and meat is used, like they say in health food places, as a condiment. Only a bit. Hence one doesn't prepare large quantities as they do in some families. So it was no hardship for her to "give up" her one piece of meat, and the beans and rice she ate make her happier than any fleishigs. So don't go all "Freidasima and her machatenister (who is on the same page as I am in all these things - 2 in a million?!!) made DIL "give up" her meat for strangers"...it was far from that.

As for some girls never being "slim" I don't agree. A girl can be top heavy but have a slim waist because she doesn't have it padded with fat.

I don't use the word "skinny" or "thin" but rather "slim" for a reason. Slim is a sillouhette, slim is a general state that has nothing to do with "skinny". It is a general look that comes from not carrying excess fat and being toned. You can be a size E or F or G bust (and my middle daughter is really top heavy, don't know what size but large chested...ahem..) but the rest of you can be slim, your face - no hint of a double chin, your arms, your legs, your waist and torso from under your breasts. No need to see your ribs, just no need to pad them and have those humps in the back over and under your bra of sagging fat deposits etc. THOSE, just BTW, come off anyone losing weight, unlike breasts which can stay plump (and are obviously meant to be!).

As for rude inconsiderate people, it was not our house, but our son's house and BH he learned from his father and from me that one never throws out people like that if they are already there. That is embarrasing them in public and for that, as chazal say, better to throw yourself into a burning firey oven. Better you should go without any food all of shabbos than to embarrass someone in public. Even if they deserve it.

No one is forcing anyone to adopt the customs that I mentioned here, but just know that although they may not be on imamother (like my dil, my dds, my machatenisters - we have two so far), they exist. In spades, particularly in certain parts of the Jewish world.

Frumdoc

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:38 am

freidasima wrote:

three or four skinny ladies standing next to each other in such a small area, but for those of us used to it, it's perfectly normal...

Slim, or skinny?

And medically speaking, girls should be growing well into their mid teens, after menarche. Their growth spurt is earlier than boys,but should be well into the first few years post menache, irrelevant of their final height.

If they aren't in an entire population, it may well be that they are undernourished, irrelevant of their final height, which has little to do with it.

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 7:08 am

Girls don't grow after their period? wow I must live in a different world.
I had mine at 13 and grew until 17 at least. Probably from 168 to 178.

Girls who are 15 in most circles, and certainly any type of Modern, do NOT start preparing for marriage.

Dieting skinny for marriage and taking back after is no good idea either. A friend of mine did that. She must have gone from a 6 to a 14 in one year after. Good job (not).

If I'm in my 9th month and not up to it, you bet my husband would kick the guys out.