Person takes entire serving meant for the table - wwyd

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 7:15 am

Massive portions: if you can't both not offend, and not eat it all, you choose.
I'm an adult, no one controls how much I eat. No to tell me "more!! finish!!", not to tell me "ladies don't eat".

If someone comments, she can be sure to hear my honest answer...

I consider it baal tashchis to play with food after 2 also Wink

I'm not saying this WILL have to cause an ED. But it's ED BEHAVIOUR.

The average Frenchwoman is a size 10/12. For 5'3. You wouldn't find her ladylike. The one Imamother raves about doesn't exist. http://www.thelocal.fr/2013072.....rance

Raisin

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 7:15 am

If someone doesn't want to eat meat, they won't eat it, whether or not there are guests who would eat it. Some of my kids often don't eat the chicken or meat on shabbos, they are not such big meat eaters and prefer eating milchigs. But guess what? I like meat better then my husband - and since I am often low in iron when pregnant, need it more then him. So lets not stereotype about males and females and what they need or like.

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 7:35 am

Raisin wrote:

I talked to several chassidishe rabbis who told me women NEED a lot of meat, especially married or future married women, you know what I mean. LOL.

freidasima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 1:36 pm

Well Ruchel I guess your rabbis don't believe that one can be vegetarian or even vegan and be very healthy with high iron and high hemoglobin all of which can come from plant sources. The only thing that can be a problem is b12 or zinc and those one can take as supplements. I've never heard of someone so hung up on eating tons of meat on a daily basis as I read in your posts about what you call the French way....

When you talk about the average frenchwoman being X size, well I don't know the average frenchwoman but we have a lot of frum french olim around and most of the girls are quite slim, some quite skinny in fact. I would guess that they are faaaar from the size 10 or 12 for five foot three. If these girls are five foot three, they would weigh something like 50 kilo, like 110 lbs. That's no size 10 or 12 in any world of sizes that I have ever heard of, even if we are using English sizes which are two smaller than continental...thats more like the american size 2 or maybe 4 today....

watergirl

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 2:02 pm

amother wrote:

I am soooo confused. I am reading this forum for the first time. It begins about a guest who eats the whole platter meant for the table to share. Then comes a pregnant woman, then a skinny teenager. What did I miss without having to read all ten pages?

Welcome to imamother. We like to tangent. If you read the thread, youll notice that the OP checked out a few pages back.

mandksima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 2:56 pm

freidasima wrote:

I was a vegetarian (ate fish, eggs and dairy) for 9 years of my life and I was raised in a very health concious home. I have to say, I was my unhealthiest then as I found out later that my body really needs meat. I crave beef often and I get anemic now and then. I take a whole lot of supplements but I still NEED the meat. I would be so sick on a high legume diet trying to get in the protein. I had such stomach issues with lentils, beans and soy. I did eat that way when I thought it was healthy but I was not in my best health then. I say listen to your body and if you see you don't feel your best on certain foods you think are healthy, avoid them and eat what makes you feel good after eating it. Even chicken doesn't make me feel the best, it is worlds different than beef for me.

freidasima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 3:50 pm

Do you think that most people are like you? Meaning do you also believe like Ruchel that most people needs lots of beef? This is really interesting as most people I know either do not eat beef at all or eat it really rarely....and I know a lot of very healthy vegetarians including my best friend, one of my children, and actually loads of others...

freidasima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:15 pm

Isramom it's not a question of "in" or "out". Being a vegetarian is not a fad like some kind of diets are - think Paleo, Atkins in its time etc.
It is a way of life that includes not eating animals and for some, their derivatives.

And on the Jewish level, we are taught that it is also the highest madrego of life, returning to what we were before Noach and the flood when Hashem allowed us to eat animals. That's why the "Nazir" z"l was a vegetarian, why Rav Kook was a vegetarian and why many great rabbonim were by choice (not because of poverty) vegetarian.

I'm not promoting or knocking anyone who is vegetarian, I'm just saying that your putting it into the category of these fad diets is a bit...simplistic and superficial.

mandksima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:15 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Vegetarian is out, low carb high veg high protein is in. Like Paleo or Atkins.

The reason Paleo has gotten so much attention is because many people believe it to be the best way for a person to eat to have optimal health, absorb nutrients best and have a healthy heart and body.

And yes, FS, I believe everybody would benefit from the kind of diet that focuses on whole clean eating and avoiding foods that cause the body to have poor absorption of nutrients even if they have been thought to be healthy for a long time. There is no one answer for everyone and since I haven't seen the organs inside bodies that you say are doing great on a vegetarian diet, I can't say whether they are healthier or not than meat eaters. The difference is to eat the meat but not with the other poor choices. I read article upon article about the matter and I am more convinced everyday that everyone would be better off, at least as a change from the American diet.

One needn't eat beef if they don't wish to but there are plenty of other animal sources. The craving beef was my own thing as my body needs it. I find I am very in tune to what my body needs in terms of nutrients since changing my diet. It is remarkable. I am not trying to convince everyone either. It takes a certain desperation to chose to eat this way. I just hope everyone finds a way of eating that suits them the best and no one ever feels pressured to eat when they don't want to. Personally, I never came across that and if ever I did, they'd get an earful.

mandksima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:20 pm

freidasima wrote:

Oh, I loved being a vegetarian, no argument there. There is such a difference in the quality of fruits and vegetables from thousands of years ago to now that you can not compare. I would also give up animal protein if I thought my body could thrive on it.

I wonder what the nutritional content of mann was in the desert.

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:33 pm

freidasima wrote:

They are not my rabbis. At all. They are also not all French, by far. Which is why I mentionned them.

Again, an average means some will be much slimmer and some much bigger. Again, I translated sizes to American. We don't have any size we call 10 unless 10 year old size. I know you want it to be different lol many foreigners do. I LIVE here.

Most people OF EURO DESCENT need lots of read meat. Yes. I don't know many people denying it.

freidasima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:39 pm

Interesting. So you think that vegetarians don't meet their nutritional requirement? Then why is it that so many doctors recommend a totally vegetarian diet for sick people, people with chronic illnesses etc? And why are all the medical studies showing us these days that westerners eat far too much protein in their diets and particularly those from animal sources? Kind of contradicts what you are saying here. Are you writing this from a proven medical point of view? Sources please.

You too Ruchel, can you point me to a medical source, a real study that states that people of European descent need lots of red meat?

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:48 pm

freidasima wrote:

I'm not the type to ask doctors or professionals or rabbis their sources for something that sounds right.
We're not going to agree, so why rehash the same convo? Wink

freidasima

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 4:55 pm

Xtianity "sounds right" to some people as well.

Ruchel without sources it's hard to accept these blanket statements that you are making. As these statements go fully against medical studies in the western world of the past twenty years, you need sources to back them up, otherwise they might be your personal opinion but you have nothing to base it on as a blanket statement other than to say that YOU feel that you need red meat to feel good.

Barbara

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 5:01 pm

Vegetarianism is a straw man.

You can eat a healthful vegetarian diet (although I dispute that its consider a higher calling in Judaism). But your description of girls pushing fat-free vegetable salads around on their plates is not a healthful diet.

Teenage GIRLS need between 50 and 70 grams of fat per day. Good sources include nuts, avocado, olive oil. Obviously, fat-free vegetable-only salads are not providing this.

There are plant based protein sources, of course. Vegetable salads are not among them. You mentioned chick peas. The protein equivalent of 3 ounces of chicken is 1-1/2 cups of chick peas. And since teenage girls need about 46 grams of protein a day, that would be 2-1/2 cups, or about 700 calories in chickpea protein alone. I'm guessing that you're not recommending that for these young girls you say need to be oh-so-slender.

Girls need to be HEALTHY. To eat healthfully. Not to forego lean sources of protein and push things around on their plates in order to attract men.