very smart DD is lazy to think- how to deal w/ her?!

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 10:46 am

I would suggest giving her more responsibilities.
She probably will fail at the beginning but learn from it and excel -- once she starts improving in one area, she will see her inner strength which will propel her to succeed in other areas.

For example, have her be responsible with packing her entire school bag and lunch bag. You can help by writing a list that she follows (she IS still a kid, don't forget!).
School bag should have green folder, red binder, pencil case, yellow notebook, and lunch bag.
Lunch bag should include one fruit, one main dish, 2 snacks, one drink.
Whatever is the norm in your family.

She probably will have a day where she forgets her lunch bag. She WILL survive. Do not rush to the school to bring it. She's 10, not 5, and hopefully she ate breakfast and will eat when she comes home.

She most likely will not repeat that mistake.

Mention to her often how you see she is a good planner in whatever areas you see her thinking (deciding to take a shower or finding a book to read or whatever menial thing you never attributed thinking/planning to!) and compliment her often on being responsible. Notice her good choices and tell her so.

It won't only change her for the better when she's built up on the inside (the most effective behavior changes happen from praise during an action) but it will also help you reframe the way you think of her.

seeker

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 11:03 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I would just amend that by saying you need to work up to packing her lunch bag (for example) in smaller steps because the whole thing might be overwhelming if she isn't doing it already. For example, you can have her be responsible for putting in her snacks while you continue to make lunch, and then when she gets used to that, move it up a notch. If she already is responsible for it but just doesn't do it well, then structure the task by making a list and coaching her in a routine. Routines save kids like this from needing to think too much about what to do when, save that energy for the things that really need it.

amother

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 11:19 am

OP, your daughter does not sound lazy, she sounds spaced out.

I was a lot like that as a kid and I wasn't being lazy, believe me. a few questions to think about. does she get enough sleep? is there a lot of stress/tension in her life, at home or at school or anywhere else? she is living in her own world and disconnecting from the reality going on around her. you need to figure out why that is more comfortable for her.

amother

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:17 pm

She can def prepare her own snack ( lunch is given in school only.) so she def can be responsible if she wants. But, she can tell me on Thursday night she has no homework ( bec it's English hmwk and not due on Friday) and only late Sunday night will she remind herself of her hmwk for Monday. And that's even if I ask her directly if she has hmwk.
She is also very literal. For example, if I ask do you have any Chumash pesukim to study, she'll say no. But she won't tell me it have Chumash questions to do. Or if I see her dirty clothes on the floor, and say dd you're clothes are on the floor, she won't understand from that comment to put it into the hamper ( the way that my 6 or 8 yr old would.) she will just say yes, my clothes are on the floor.
It's hard to remember the need to give such explicit broken down instructions.
I appreciate all the feedback!
As far as being in another world, she is creative and dreamy, loves to read etc. I don't think it's a lack of wanting to live in reality.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:35 pm

Instead of asking her specific questions about the homework, how about asking her each night to take out her homework book (planner, yoman, whatever you call it) and read what needs to be done. It will get her in the habit of looking at lists (and writing them!) and then once it's itemized, work with her on a schedule of doing them. Ok, what will you do first? When she does that, have her physically check it off or cross it out. Make it tangible that way.

When it's an experience she does vs an auditory thing, she'll likely do much better. Speaking will just be in one ear and out the other with children of this nature.

I think what you will need to do is stop making passing remarks but require interactive feedback (I.e. about the clothing) -- where are your clothes right now? Have her look around, see, and take it from there. Engage her that way.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:39 pm

Also, play problem solving games with her. Give an example of a hypothetical issue or one that you actually experienced, and ask her what she would do. It won't be a pressing time-sensitive matter, since it's just a what-if, and that pressure is taken off of her.

E.g. "What if I needed to go to the dry cleaners today before work, what would I do?"
"Put the clothing in the car"
"What if I forgot to? What should I do? What would happen?" or "What if I forgot to stop at the cleaners?"

Have her role play through various scenarios as a fun activity (make it more age appropriate, I can't think of things right now!) It will get the brain working.

gp2.0

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:51 pm

Two things:

1) every child needs to be parented in their own way. So if she responds well to specific instructions, just be more specific. Its not that hard.
2) you used a lot of derogatory language in your posts - your DD is lazy, she is bordering on stupid, she is babyish, etc. If you EVER talk to her like this, then yeah, there's a big chance shes spacing out to escape her reality.

dimyona

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:58 pm

I agree with gp2.0 that you need to adjust the way you think about your daughter. The terminology you used was very off putting, unless you were just particularly frustrated about your recent incident.

She's just a kid. 10 year olds can and will do "stupid" things, because their executive functions are not fully developed. She is not an adult, and you need to stop viewing her as one.

Either way, these board games can be very helpful in developing cognition or working on specific issues like impulse control and irrational thinking. Hatzlacha!

http://www.selfhelpwarehouse.c......html

http://www.selfhelpwarehouse.c......html

amother

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 1:54 pm

of course I'm majorly frustrated right now so that's how I'm venting to you here. we've been working on this issue for years. and these are just very small, simple examples that come to my mind of how she doesn't think or focus on the present/her surroundings.
we've tried problem solving role playing. she doesn't get it ever, cant' figure out a solution. I even work with her step by step- for real life situations, as well as make believe- nothing. I role played a few scenarios of social interaction with her, and then in real life she couldn't do it. So yes, at this point I'm frustrated. Which is why I'm asking you guys for advice, so I can help her out without getting upset at her.

marshmellow

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 2:02 pm

I think you are overeacting, she doesn't have a disorder she is 10 years old.

Some girls are mature, some less mature and some are immature. It has nothing to do with intelligence ( intelligent people can be the most immature people), and it doesn't mean she will stay that way. She is 10! She is allowed to be a little babyish from time to time. She has a lot of time PG to realise the correct way to act. She will learn, promise.

I am clumsy. It's not something you can help. I think it is very mean and inappropriate to make her pay for a new uniform. What did she do wrong and how can she pay for it? That will totally confuse her and make her resent her parents. She spilt her drink. It's not the end of the world. She didn't do it on purpose - it was a mistake.

Find her some sort of hobby that she enjoys, read stories with her, give her a fun time, improve her confidence, make being mature for age seem like something cool. A happy child = a good performing child.

Let her enjoy her childhood, and enjoy being a kid.

Make her feel confident that if she makes a mistake, it's ok.

amother

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 2:35 pm

I'm someone else who was like this as a kid.

It drove my mom nuts. She was a VERY good mother...but she used to get so frustrated with me. My siblings teased me and called me "spacey" and "space cadet." I laughed, but it felt so bad on the inside. My mother didn't usually do stuff like that, but she did say over and over again how irresponsible I was. I hated that word. It was always said in such an exasperated way. And the message I got over and over again was that if I just "tried harder" I'd be able to do what everyone expected me to do. Well, guess what? I tried. And I tried some more. And then poof, out of the blue something would happen -- I'd leave something important at home, completely forget that I had a major test, forget what someone had just told me...and lo and behold, I was still irresponsible. At one point, I guess I just gave up.

Again, my mom was a wonderful parent in so many ways. But my dh now lives with a wife who feels that she can't get her act together, defines herself as "irresponsible" and "klutzy" and "spacey," and feels that no matter how hard she tries, she'll always be that way. I get so upset at myself when I forget something...and I've gotten SO much better! My mind realizes that I'm not that different from "normal" adults around me now, but deep down inside I still view myself as a spacey little kid with no sense of responsibility...

(P.S. One of my kids now acts the same way It drives me nuts too! I understand where he's coming from...and it stil drives me nuts. I keep on trying to focus on parenting him the way I wish I'd been parented...and realizing that there are some things he's just not going to "get" at this point. And that's okay.)

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 7:20 pm

amother wrote:

It might be good to ask the pediatrician. Some professional evaluation and intervention might be useful.

As you can see above, a lot of Imamothers identify with your daughter one way or another.

And, they can all use a computer, and they are all now, or have been, married. Many have children. These are functional people. Your daughter may be fine in her own way, just like them.

But talk to the ped. It would clarify things for you, and reduce your frustration, because you would know more about what is going on. One thing that is upsetting you is that you don't know what is happening or why, with her. That could change for the better with professional help.

seeker

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 7:47 pm

dimyona wrote:

Hope this isn't veering too far off topic, but do you have personal experience with these games? I'd seen them for sale online but can't see much detail and have not seen any reviews anywhere. They look interesting but not so cheap and I already have a closet bursting with teaching games, so I'd love to hear more about them if they're really good.