My precious child is being picked on

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 10:48 pm

marina wrote:

Dolly, please read this link about some stuff that goes on in some of the "excellent" schools. http://theunorthodoxjew.blogsp......html

Not saying this is what OP's child is experiencing- her school is probably better.

But please don't assume all mean rebbeim just have high standards. That attitude results in so many traumatized adults.

I am not going to click on a link about unorthodox Jews. It doesn't feel like my kind of place.
This rebbe isn't exactly "mean", this thread is revealing. He is a high-drama guy whose highly scripted style works for many, but not for OP's kid.

Anybody who doesn't like orthodoxy and its strictures can slide on over to LW MO, or to Conservative, and have plenty of friends.

Orthodoxy is only ten percent of American Jews.

There are lots of ways to have a Jewish milieu without being Orthodox. There are so many alternatives that I don't feel sorry for Jews who find it a tight or uncomfortable fit. I myself changed my notions and became BT.

I don't criticize or rag on people who don't believe the way I do. I do not have zeal. I live and let live. I take responsibility for my happiness and made myself happy by going BT. Yes, I think I'm right but I don't preach to others. I could rail at the family before my time who abandoned Torah, sentencing me to a later marriage and fewer children, but I don't.

And the schools!!! Getting into them is worth your life!! so why complain when you are in? You are the one who wanted that school so much. Did you suddenly find out something about the school you didn't know before? Did they hide something from you? I would say not.

And there are lots and lots of alternatives.

I am talking about a child who does not have OP's son's difficulties. He needs special accommodation and skilled handling, he is not conventional.

It should be remembered that the purpose of schooling is to get the material into the head. Not to affix a brand name to the forehead. There must be pedagogy not snobbism.

The material can be inserted into the head by the parents and assorted tutors and online study, in a mix that suits the circumstances. There is a wealth of support available for that now. The schools suit some, and homeschooling suits some. To each her own.

groisamomma

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:00 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I can't like this enough. Not for what it says about OP's topic, but about posting an unorthodox link on this site. Thank you Dolly.

amother

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:03 pm

amother wrote:

It is unfair that the rebbe that does fun things with the class should stop and/or change his teaching style because your son doesn't know his limits and gets out of control, unlike the rest of the boys. Why should the rebbe not continue dressing up and making "shtick" for the other 20+ kids in the class that do know how to behave when the rebbe says it's time to settle down? The other class may be better for him because it's less exciting and less opportunities to have fun while learning, OTOH less opportunities for your son to get completely out of control.

Not every rebbe and teacher will fit your child. Your child has issues and they seem like big ones. In a full classroom of 20+ kids, it is unrealistic to expect the rebbe to change his teaching style that works for everyone else just for one child (whose parent says if I decide to get a diagnosis, on top of that). Yes, a five-year-old that needs medication but isn't getting it can get out of control and be extremely silly. His classmates laugh at him, not with him, and as he gets older they will dislike him for his continual interruptions.

It is very hard to prepare exciting lessons and do fun things in a classroom where one kid gets out of control and does not know boundaries. The other rebbe and class sound like a better fit for him.

Anon because I deal with parents and kids like this all day and I have said this numerous times to them.

Woaaa! Maybe you are an overwhelmed teacher responding but I think your post addresses your own personal issues and that you have not understood my post well at all.

The Rebbe should not change his teaching style. But he SHOULD be able to handle the few children that will inevitably show up in his classroom each year, with their individual needs. My child has 3 therapists who are working with him, and when I spoke to the Rebbe today, he asked me who I am getting to help my kid. ?!?!?! Seriously!?!?!?! He wants me to hire a babysitter. Maybe he should take some advice from these therapists to figure out how to deal with my kid. I know disciplining is not fun, but just because my kid is not a cookie cutter doesn't mean he should be let go to waste. He is just as deserving as the other 20+ kids. He should not be made to feel that he is a bad child. He is a young child! He shouldn't be picked on and harassed. And pardon your ignorance, but usually kids are not put on amphetamines until they are at least (AT LEAST) 6 years old. It's not safe and used only in extreme cases at a younger age. I'm getting my child all the help he needs right now. What will a diagnosis (or label) change exactly?

You know my other kids are all the brightest, most popular, and "conventional" kids in their classes. I once had the same mindset as you. But now it's different. It pains me to see people writing in essence that my child should be written off and medicated and sedated in order for the faculty in his school to be convenienced. This is exactly why I can't talk to anyone around me from friends and family. None of them have a child like this and just cannot understand the fierce love yet powerlessness that I feel for him. Where is the ahavas yisrael for every child, despite them being different? We encourage diversity when it comes to "special" children with developmental delays, but for children with neurological deficits, there doesn't seem to be the same acceptance. Rather than trying all non-pharmacological methods first, in order to avoid unnecessary, life-threatening health risks such as seizures, heart attacks and stroke (all possible adverse reactions from Ritalin and other amphetamines), it seems the schools push these pills to make their own lives easier.

amother

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:09 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Dolly, OP here. I love your posts, they are beautiful. I didn't send my son to this school because it is "top." We are not into brand names in the least bit. I can't home-school my child. Firstly because I work full time. Secondly because I live in a small apartment and my child needs to get out to have space to play. Thirdly because frankly I need a break from him sometimes too. We have difficulties in the home with him too. HUGE ones. He is challenging everywhere. We take parenting classes, go to therapists and doctors. I need to find the right setting for him I just don't know where to start.

amother

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:21 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Is the therapist or p3 familiar with the schools I'm your neighborhood? They might be able to suggest a better fit. I'm so sorry for what you're struggling with Sad

(PS Dolly, that post was wonderful)

The therapist is familiar with some of the other schools. They seem to all be big and have their upsided and pitfalls. Right now she is strongly suggesting that I try to get a para through the BOE and that will be my next step, even before asking to switch him to the other class. She says that the other Rebbe has his advantages but there are several areas which may be hard for my son too.

I just want to make it clear that I don't expect any Rebbe to change their teaching style. I just expect them to show love to my child, not to make it tough on him by constantly punishing and pointing out his weaknesses, which obviously won't work. Funny thing is that my son didn't have this treatment until recently, because there was a kid or 2 that made more trouble than him. Those kids got paras so the next scapegoat is my kid. I was told that it's better to be under this Rebbe's radar, rather than to be noticed if your kid has any sort of issue.

groisamomma

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:27 pm

amother wrote:

How many paras are sitting in this rebbe's classroom? According to what you write, there are two other full-time adults in the classroom with the rebbe.

Last edited by groisamomma on Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:27 pm

Dear OP,

Your son sounds a little like my son in the best morah's class at age 5. She has been teaching for 30 years & is acknowledged to be the expert on the age. My son would fall out of his seat, act silly, take his shoes off.

& She would punish him by making him sit in the back of the class.

She was sure he had ADHD. We had him evaluated. Then we moved him to a school that had the instructional supports he needs. He has a learning disability. Not ADHD (though I have other kids with ADHD, so I was so very willing to believe that the best moreh was right.)

Now he has no behavioral problems, because he is not asked to do things that are beyond his skill set. In the best moreh's class, he was being expected to do things that he just could not do & since he was just 5 years old, he did not know how to say "This is too hard for me. I can't read this yet." So he acted silly & got excused from the impossible tasks.

I hope you will let the new rebbe know how thrilled you are that he will be in the new rebbe's class & all the wonderful things you have heard about how organized he is and how that is what your son needs so much.

Hugs to you & your son.

Sincerely,
Mom of happy 8yo

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:28 pm

Tx

OP, you say "My child has 3 therapists who are working with him, and when I spoke to the Rebbe today, he asked me who I am getting to help my kid. ?!?!?!"

OP, this makes one think that the money you are spending, lavishing, on the THREE therapists, three, might be better rolled into a ball and spent on a good shadow person, or whatever it is called, a person to help. Another kid already has one, so that would lessen the stigma if any. Your kid wouldn't be the first or the only.

Don't sling the word "babysitter" at someone who might help your kid survive and remain in mainstream education. This might be a better use of your money.

The rebbe is saying or implying even unintendedly that these three, THREE, therapists are not helping. The kid is still having the difficulties.

Their pious pronouncements about the rebbe being too old don't really do anything, do they. And then it seems it's not that he's OLD, he has a high-energy, dramatic style that confuses and overwhelms your child. That has nothing to do with being old.

groisamomma

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:30 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I was thinking along the same lines. Maybe your son is not getting the proper help? A para might be just what he needs.

I would love one for my dd just to help her decipher the teacher's instructions, but the BOE here isn't so giving Rolling Eyes

amother

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:36 pm

groisamomma wrote:

Ha, I think we have the same BOE of NYC. I was told that they are more receptive to a recommendation coming from the pediatrician who is qualified to diagnose ADHD and other behavioral issues. That is the route we are trying first. I really hope it works, because supposedly the Rebbe stops paying attention to the kid once he gets a para (which is a catch-22), and he will stop constantly criticizing my child. If I don't get it, I would hire my own para but I can't afford it. Then the only thing standing between my child and a toxic environment would be money. Which is crazy.

groisamomma

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:37 pm

amother wrote:

OP here. Besides for at least 2 paras (they may be more without my knowledge), there is also an assistant and at least one P3 in that classroom every time I come by for anything. The class is swarming with support staff, yet it seems that the Rebbe just wants more. I just really get the feeling that he is not equipped to deal with kids who are not the typical stereotype, which is sad considering they are becoming a greater and greater percentage of a total class population.

I don't know the rebbe except for what you are saying here and I hear your perspective from the parent's POV. However, from a teacher's POV I just want to point out that the more support in a classroom, the better it is. Today's classrooms have so MANY children with issues (some that we can't see, so you may not even recognize the problems) that the more support staff a classroom has, the better. Maybe you are correct about the rebbe, I don't know. I just look at it as a good thing to have more staff than just a rebbe in the classroom. Look at it this way: If you can't switch your son to the other rebbe, and he does get a para, he will end up with tailor-made education just for him with time-outs and anything else he needs. The para will be busy with only him and nobody else. For a 5-year-old, that can really do a lot for him.

groisamomma

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:40 pm

amother wrote:

Nah, Lakewood is much stingier than the BOE in NYC I heard. In any case, if you need to get a diagnosis for him to be eligible, go ahead and do it. I think it will work wonders for him to have his own para. What could be better than a private teacher in a public setting? She'll help him go along with the flow of the classroom and the rebbe will no longer be down his back. It is foundational for a kid like this.

Good luck!

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:47 pm

OP you say "I just really get the feeling that he is not equipped to deal with kids who are not the typical stereotype, "

No, he's not.

He never represented himself as skilled in that field. Teaching children with special needs is a field and a degree in itself.

OP, you look at the child as a son and the child looks at you as his mother. To others, it is going to be harder, in both directions. They won't love, and the kid may not respond as well.

Having a shadow is a half-way ground between the exclusive attention of homeschooling and mainstream education. Here, homeschooling isn't available, and mainstream education isn't working. Therefore, the shadow seems to be a practical thing to try.

For now.

These things evolve. Later he may be in a class where he doesn't need a shadow because the teacher is more attuned to his learning style.

At the moment you want him on pace absorbing the material the others are absorbing. Whatever it takes.