Having "the talk" with son ? HELP

amother

Fri, Mar 21 2014, 3:14 pm

marina wrote:

some boys whose parents don't talk to them end up figuring things out, but others end up worrying that there's something wrong with them or that they have a horrible illness or are wetting their bed, etc. Heard it first hand from one of the latter ones.

My DH thought he had cancer, or something. He tried to show his private to his mother and her reaction is enough to make my blood boil. You never tell a child that it's disgusting to show your mom any part of your body, in private mind you.
(Yes, my DH figured it out eventually. He became addicted to masterb.)

Ariella28

Sat, Mar 22 2014, 5:03 pm

Thank u mommysa!!

monseychick

Sat, Mar 22 2014, 9:45 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

How does that contradict what is written in this article? Two separate subjects

ETA R Moshe ztzl has a teshuva specifying that this topic should be discussed with yeshiva bochurim so that they understand the prohibition. He has another teshuva stating that shifchat zera levatala is a clear halachic prohibition from the Torah. He has a third teshuva stating that while the regular course of teshuva is sufficient, it is praiseworthy for someone to take on a specific course of fasting as additional teshuva for this sin.

My husband looked it up for over Shabbos..

Iggoros Moshe EH 1:63

amother

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 9:34 am

Just wondering how common it is to have wet dreams? Never encountered this with my brothers or dh. Physical changes should be explained, if they are not self understood. I mean, does the kid freak out when he starts growing body hair?

amother

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 9:45 am

amother wrote:

Same here and my son too.

BlueRose52

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 10:55 am

amother wrote:

How would you know that your brothers had wet dreams?! You think they'd have told you!?

And your dh? Of course you wouldn't encounter it with your husband. We're talking about when people are in their teens, and are feeling s-xually frustrated. That's when it happens mostly.

Body hair is a totally different thing. Every kid who has been to a swimming pool (or mikva) has seen people have body hair, it's not a surprise to them. But they don't know about the more hidden aspects of puberty.

Ruchel

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 11:08 am

Whether or not your brothers did, they may have hid it, or not have it, but anyway it's about someone else (your child) here and it may happen to anyone, though in the end it doesn't happen to all. So it can't be skipped. BH for fathers... LOL

amother

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 3:05 pm

Stay as scientific as possible when describing physical changes and biological processes. Then you can show him the Torah sources and explain relevant mitzvot.

My mother thought she was bleeding to death when she got her period. Parents surely need to explain these things to children.

amother

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 3:12 pm

amother wrote:

New poster here. I can't believe DH will want to have the 'talk' with our boys as he's never experienced this himself...

vintagebknyc

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 3:19 pm

your DH didn't grow body hair? LOL

Ruchel

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 4:07 pm

amother wrote:

New poster here. I can't believe DH will want to have the 'talk' with our boys as he's never experienced this himself...

Ok. But still he's "closer" to this topic than you, right? Because even if he didn't, he may have. You? not a chance.

little neshamala

Sun, Mar 23 2014, 8:35 pm

so interesting. just a few weeks ago, there was a lecture in Monsey, in Yeshiva of Spring Valley-on this exact topic, given by The Director of CAPs, (Center for Applied Psychology,of Bikur Cholim) Dr. Yitzchak Schechter, PsyD.

IT WAS ENDORSED BY RAV SHMUEL KAMENETSKY- he himself came, to show his endorsement and support, and spoke as well.

their bottom line was it s CRUCIAL to have the talk, however uncomfortable, because otherwise the boy having wet dreams, etc, might ultimately come to some very WRONG realizations, and feel guilty/disgusted with himself for "being bad" and this kind of thinking can ultimately be disastrous.

he also mentioned that although usually the father would do this talk, sometimes it just wont work for the father to do it, for various reasons, and it can be the mother if she feels its more appropriate.

Main Points from the Speech (from my notes):
*All of the following are for preteen/ teenage boys. every boy needs to be told the following on a different "exposure"level. determine how far you should talk to your son about the topic depending on his age/maturity level/prior exposure/what you feel he needs to know etc. Chanoch L'naar al pi darco.
*just like you are growing taller, stronger etc, body is changing that way too
*very normal to have urges, feelings, physiological responses (erections, wet dreams) etc
*its changing for a purpose that Hashem had in mind, 4 your tachlis, will eventualy enable you to have children, be a father etc
*everything designed with a purpose-erecti0n is not "bad sign"-its designed to one day help your zera go where it needs to have children, etc.
*mishnayos and gemara touch on these topics and can be a good icebreaker to gently touch on this uncomfortable topic
*this is not a "bad" part of us. we are made of both physical and spiritual. we can elevate the physical into spiritual when the time comes etc etc etc (dont need to say this, unless the kid is older and/or needs better explanations)
*just because this is what you feel, doesnt mean you should act on it (touch self) because its halachicaly forbidden. cant just act on our impulses, with anything, try to have self control. but dont feel guilty for the urges.
*everyone experienced this. and it is a big struggle, not just for you, for everyone, even our talmidei chachamim, etc! normal. even the Gemara talks about how the greater a person becomes, the greater his Yetzer Hara in this becomes...
*this is not something that is bad/taboo. its something specificaly designed for you to have, just the right time is later when you are married. so be responsible and try to control yourself until married.
*there is no such thing as a bad question-please come to me with any questions you ever have etc. better that the uncomfortable answers come from the parents than their peers.

hope this helped

MommySA

Mon, Mar 24 2014, 6:26 am

Thank You Little Neshamela ! I found that to be a very helpful guideline Thumbs Up

little neshamala

Mon, Mar 24 2014, 4:19 pm

MommySA wrote:

Thank You Little Neshamela ! I found that to be a very helpful guideline Thumbs Up

you're welcome. although it really doesnt do the speech much justice- he went a lot more in depth and really gave a wonderful approach..

BlueRose52

Mon, Mar 24 2014, 6:33 pm

I think all those points mentioned by little neshamala are quite worthwhile. I'll just mention one other thing that I've been led to understand goes on, which I think is a serious problem. While it is indeed halachically forbidden to touch self, it's very unhealthy to teach children/teens that doing so is THE WORST SIN EVER. Or if not actually that, but to be treated as such. I've heard that some rabbeim teach that every time a boy does it, it's destroying all the potential souls in his wasted zera, so it's akin to murder. Mass murder, actually. Some also go into graphic detail of the punishment in gehenom for doing it.

Unfortunately, from what I've gathered, this is a common approach in yeshivas, and despite the fact that there is indeed basis in the texts for treating it so seriously, it really serves no purpose other than causing tremendous guilt for boys. The fact is they're going to do it. Scaring and guilting them so badly isn't going to stop it. We shouldn't make them feel so horrible for doing something totally normal. I think a better approach is to treat it like loshon hara. Something we strive to avoid, but we all know that we all do it sometimes, so we don't beat ourselves up for it when we fail. We just try harder next time.

ElTam

Mon, Mar 24 2014, 8:14 pm

I am leaving this one to my husband.

little neshamala

Wed, Mar 26 2014, 4:29 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

good point.
one of the ideas addressed in the speech was how important it was to avoid placing such strong feelings of guilt on the boys. yes, its an aveirah, and yes, try hard not to do it, just like we try hard not to do all aveiros.
but the message is that there should not be extra guilt associated with this topic-simply because we are trying to stress that it is NOT a dirty topic, but rather a wonderful, beautiful one which Yiddishkeit embraces- at the appropriate time, when you are married.

greenfire

Wed, Mar 26 2014, 4:36 pm

amother wrote:

Greenfire what age do you think is appropriate?

10 or 11