"We are too Machshiv Torah to homeschool"

mandr

Tue, Sep 09 2014, 11:30 pm

A. I don't know what's so bad about "I could never do that!" kind of comments. It's called "awe". I feel good when I get such a comment.

B. Of course all the pro-homeschool people are reveling in this thread, but I feel that Scrabble's post was completely on the mark. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how others found it offensive. I am unfamiliar with homeschooling, but as with anything atypical, you are bound to get some opposition. You just have to be strong and live with it. You pick an alternate way, you are going to get comments. As harsh as it sounds. But it's mostly because people don't know much about it.

I went to a regular school and enjoyed all my years there. I like to think I'm an intelligent, well-rounded person. Stop comparing homeschooling and regular schooling by knocking the regular schooling. It's been around for years and it's a system that works for the general student population.

Ruchel

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 5:35 am

amother wrote:

We are black hat, Yeshivish. We homeschooled because of out-of-control bullying in my son's Yeshiva. The bully chose to pick on my son, and the rest of the class followed. Typical mob psychology, they followed suit because they didn't want to become victims.

People tried to scare us off saying my son would never develop social skills.

Are you telling me that having an entire class taunt and hurt my son will help them all develop good social skills?

I'm so happy you homeschooled him.
I read last week the story of (TRIGGERING TRIGGERING)
a boy who committed suicide after 3 years of "daily coming home with bruises".
Old school parents, would never homeschool. Old school school, meh kids are kids, and he should learn to defend him self.
I was so so mad when I read that article. Only now are the parents suing the school (no culture of sueing here but still !). I want to sue the parents...

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 8:54 am

1. "I could never do that" is meant to be complimentary, and if you feel hurt by the comment, it shows that you are overly sensitive to the topic. Perhaps you're the one that's insecure with your decision to homeschool.

2. Why do you feel the need to discuss your homeschooling and to try to explain everything about it? You're just going to get hurt. Don't bring it up, and if others do, give some brief answer which doesn't invite more conversation. I do that with many things in my life that I know people won't understand.

To be honest, I'm always amused by those who put themselves out there with their unconventional ideas, and then get insulted if people are not understanding of them. If you were so sure of yourself and your position on things, these comments wouldn't bother you.

amother

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:05 am

As a former HS'd kid, I know the benefits of HS.
I wonder, and this might mark me a cynic, that rabbanim don't publicly support it and can even be anti-HS because they need kids to go to their schools. Plus There are some people in public positions(not a Rav, just "experts") who need others to want them so they can keep their status. If say a chinuch expert (self described) goes against what all schools say, they won't get consulting jobs. And the schools obviously don't like homeschooling as a viable option or they lose their school......
Just a few thoughts....

amother

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:15 am

Maya wrote:

OP here.

Maya, this is a bullying comment. I say I am hurt by some comments, and you tell me it's because I am too sensitive. Then you say maybe the problem is me, maybe I am not sure of myself, or maybe I shouldn't be discussing these things. So, first I am bullied by rude and insensitive people, then I have the enablers like you who say I shouldn't let it bother me, and if it does bother me the problem is me, not them. Classic bullying enabling.

How about this: maybe people shouldn't be rude and mean. Maybe people should be more sensitive to the feelings of others.

I am not saying this so much for myself. I am the one confident enough to speak up about the cruelty of forced conformity. I am saying this for the benefit of those willing to hear that there are people who are just as frum as you, just as educated as you, just as socialized as you, who don't follow the same exact path as you. There are those who believe we have options outside the box, who don't cave to societal peer pressure. I am hoping that some people will be able to recognize that it is cruel to contribute to the pressure to conform by making these snide comments about, in this case, homeschooling, but really about anything different. I have already made a difference in the mindset and actions of many people I know in real life.

And I am saying all this for the benefit of those who have been bullied for being different and who don't have the words to speak up. Those who are suffering in silence on a daily basis. Some of them are too sensitive, and some of them are insecure, and those are not character flaws. Telling them they are too sensitive to bullying is the real character flaw.

amother

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:30 am

op- I'm sincerely trying to understand why " I could never do that" is a bullying comment. when I say I wish I could homeschool but for personal reasons don't think I can I say that with tears in my heart you just can't see them. those people might not be upset about the fact they can't they just know their limitations- the same way they might say I could never cook for a sheva brachos of 200 people etc... when you tell them you just did-its awe not bullying.

HonesttoGod

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:36 am

Maya wrote:

Oh come on! Since when are we not allowed to talk about our interests. It WILL come up in conversation because that is what happens with nosy people, they ask and then they judge galore.

OP I wish I could homeschool my kids but for many reasons it is just not practical for me Sad

I do know many people who were homeschooled and others that do it for their kids. I have found they are much stronger in their opinions and choices. They do things because they KNOW it is right. THEY made the choice, not peer pressure, not classmates or neighbors.

And one more thing, "I could never do that" is not always complimentary. If offered with an explanation such as "wow that is amazing I could never do that I wouldn't manage" then yes perhaps that is a compliment but most times it is said in a cynical tone "oh my I would/could never do that [to my kids]". That is highly offensive and the most common way it is said where I live anyway.

I don't want to give too many details I don't want to out myself because my stories are widely known amongst my friends/relatives but several factors in my life growing up have contributed to many mean and ignorant comments. And whilst they do wash off my back usually, sometimes it is just one too many and the cup overflows. It is so normal it happens but I do wish people would have some tact and sense before they opened their mouths.
If you have nothing to contribute to a conversation, or thread in this case, if you do not know anything about the subject, don't comment on it.

amother

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:38 am

amother wrote:

Sensitivity works both ways. You need to be more sensitive to what it is people are really trying to convey. Some people are bullies, but some people are not. Some of what you are going through is bullying, but I haven't seen any bullying or offensive remarks on this thread.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:40 am

HonesttoGod wrote:

Oh come on! Since when are we not allowed to talk about our interests. It WILL come up in conversation because that is what happens with nosy people, they ask and then they judge galore.

Yes, of course we are allowed to talk about our interests. But if they are unconventional, we should expect to be judged and receive hurtful comments. You can't expect everyone to be open to all ideas.

If you can't handle the backlash and understand that people may think differently than you do, maybe you shouldn't be talking about it.

Scrabble123

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:52 am

sequoia wrote:

Something is very wrong if you seriously believe that.

I think that Maya is saying that you have to be confident enough in your decision is be able to overcome the very painful remarks that you are going to get, and that you have to be open enough to understand that not every remark is negative. I think she is saying that there is something called not feeling the same, but not bullying. I'm sure that Maya really knows what it is like to be judged for her decisions, and I think that she is speaking from personal experience. She may have spoken a little harshly, but I think she was just giving encouragement. It could be that OP needs more gentle words, but I don't think Maya is just telling her to suck it up, but rather to be confident in herself so it shouldn't bother her, and to also recognize that not every act of "perceived" bullying is actually bullying. She wants the trust that I am good person making good decisions to go both ways in the conversation. Maya, please correct me if I am wrong.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 11:57 am

Scrabble123 wrote:

You're a better person than I am Smile

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks. And yes, I do speak from lots of personal experience. I have snide and bullying remarks made to me all the time regarding my being different and doing things differently than how I was brought up, and I know that I must be confident in my decisions and not let it get to me.

If something really irks me to the point that I can't let it go, I reexamine my decisions and analyze my feelings to see what is causing the insecurities. It's the way of the world. People's view differ, and people say stupid things.

Scrabble123

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:02 pm

amother wrote:

scrabble- I read maya's posts the same way. could be because we "know" maya from her other posts.

I agree with this.

We all deal with rude remarks. We are constantly judged. It's wrong. I think that OP is just really turned off by any remark at this point because of her pain, even ones that may not be negative. I personally felt I was quite neutral in my comments. I also think that telling OP to be confident was good advice because that is what as personally helped me overcome others judgments and to not feel "kicked down." Apparently, OP is so pained by the rude remarks, that she is interpreting even non negative remarks in a negative manner. As stated above, sensitivity works both ways. OP doesn't deserve to be hurt, bullied, or attacked (No one does), but people saying genuinely appropriate remarks also deserve the benefit of the doubt that they are just trying to have a decent conversation, followed by the trust that they are not saying something hurtful.

When we do something different, we are going to be attacked. Unfortunately that is the way society works, especially an insular, conforming one like Orthodox Judaism. I actually think that most people on this thread were quite decent and sensitive (although the internet does leave certain things open to interpretation.. which means comments can be misinterpreted as nice/mean/rude/sensitive/etc.) because we all were SHOCKED by the comment of "I'm too machshiv Torah to homeschool" which is a repulsive remark. Puke

We connected to OPs pain in our own level, and tried to give advice that we could relate to, while making it clear that is with regards to something other than homeschooling.

Think of words as presents. If you open the box and don't like what's inside: throw it away. If you like the wrapping paper, keep it and reuse, but if you don't: throw that away too. Just throw away what you don't like. Oh and again feel confident because you are surely doing what is right for your family. No one else can make that decision for you.