Why don't you vaccinate? (no bashing)

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:36 pm

baschabad wrote:

I see that I have been wasting my time. You are not interested in answers or opinions, you are interested in blaming and accusing.
Let's stop the sinas chinam and daven to Hashem for the health and safety of all people.

Unfortunately, the "answers" fall in to only 2 camps. Each is fortified with it's own statistics and staffed by each camp's own experts. People get hot and bothered whenever anyone says that they put their own safety first and possibly jeopardize the safety of others. It is like the guy who rents a room in a boat and drills a hole in the bottom of it. It is his room and he paid the rent, but the whole boat will sink with everyone on board.

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:39 pm

amother wrote:

Eschaya if you read the posts above you'll see that many of the non-vaccinators avoidTylenol and antibiotics and choose natural remedies, such as vitamins. Nobody forces us to take medications. But it's becoming extremely difficult to practice our right not to vaccinate.

I guess that so far, the law is on your side and you do have a right not to vaccinate. Do the vaccinated who are afraid of their babies catching something have a right to exclude those who don't vaccinate from attending their simchas, play dates, birthday parties, etc?

SorGold

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:40 pm

baschabad wrote:

Southernbubby, very good point with no easy answer. Because most of society is not immune to disease, a total halt of vaccination would likely mean a terrible outbreak of disease. Vaccination may have been a bad idea to start with, but now that it's going, stopping it would be catastrophic. As I said, no easy answer...

By the way, to clarify, vitamin c is not a cure for pertussis, but has been found to relieve symptoms. I posted one source earlier. If my child ever got whooping cough, that would be one of the treatments that I would try. Otherwise, I don't think doctors have much to offer.

No one is saying that disease is not potentially deadly, it's just not as common as some people might believe. The risk of death from disease vs risk of vaccine injury? Look it up!

Look it up where??? The internet is not a reliable source! What sources do you deem reluable.

Scrabble123

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:43 pm

baschabad wrote:

I don't think that there is any sinas chinam, blaming, or accusing here. I think that it's just hard to accept someone saying something is a fact when the accepted, scientific facts prove otherwise. How can you choose to believe a fact that is not even a fact and has no rules regulating what a fact is? The scientific community has peer reviewed studies, guidelines, etc. but what you're quoting can just be someone's opinion dressed as a fact. If we started telling you that the Earth is really flat maybe you'd respect us as human beings, hope that we won't walk off of the Earth, and listen to what we have to say, but you'd know that you're fact of the Earth being round is what is halachically and scientifically correct. You may try to validate our feelings and understanding where we are coming from, but I think you'd have a hard time accepting that the Earth is flat even though it looks that where from where we're standing!

SorGold

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:47 pm

amother wrote:

I'm not vaccinated. I traveled out of the country 4 times. Yes I went to seminary in Israel for a year without the meningitis shot.

Qhat is your point? That you are lucky? Maybe a bit of a risk taker? Did you bring organic produce and vitamins and herbs to Israel in case you contracted polio? What were you relying on to keep you safe?

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:54 pm

amother wrote:

Eschaya if you read the posts above you'll see that many of the non-vaccinators avoid Tylenol and antibiotics and choose natural remedies, such as vitamins. Nobody forces us to take medications. But it's becoming extremely difficult to practice our right not to vaccinate.

Wait, vitamins?

I am all for them!

But the ones in the bottles were manufactured, and may certainly be laboratory synthesized. Natural? What?

Oh goodie now they'll all stop taking vitamins.

Rickets, anyone?

amother

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:55 pm

SorGold wrote:

I'm not trying to make a point here. I was answering somebody who asked the question if unvaccinated people travel out of the U.S. If you read the thread you will see the question. Then somebody else asked, "would you send your son to yeshiva in Israel without the meningitis shot?" So I included that.

Like baschabad said, this is a waste of time. I'm done with this topic here.

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 6:19 pm

Uh, just checked FB. Pretty good fight going on between the vaxers and the anti vaxers. There was one comment that a family had 5 sons who all caught mumps and all became sterile. Of course, FB commentators are not really reliable sources but 5 sons who all became sterile from mumps? May Hashem protect us!

amother

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 6:28 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

Are we not reading the same thread? There is plenty of venomous blaming and accusing going on here.
We know we are going against the grain. Since you bring up the world being flat (not sure why)... Once it was thought to be, then somebody figured out otherwise. Ideas and theories evolve. Especially within science and medicine. Once upon a time not so long ago leeches and cupping were standard medical practice. You ever been treated with leeches? Not to many deades ago people with mental disorders (even slight ones) were being lobotomised left and right. Know anyone having one done lately? Medical practices change and progress. Can you not even see a sliver of possibility that maybe vaccines aren't all that and that maybe we are not crazy, callous people????

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 6:39 pm

amother wrote:

It looks like science is trying to develop new even more vaccines.

chani8

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 1:08 am

Frumdoc wrote:

And yet I see hundreds of people per year who have accidentally or deliberately taken too much tylenol and ended up with liver or kidney damage, enough to need transplant in some cases. Maybe 2 or 3 per week.

But I have never seen anyone with a vaccine reaction. Not saying they don't exist, sure they do, but the risk /likelihood/ incidence is far lower than that of tylenol toxicity in real life, but no one gets hysterical/ there is no anti tylenol industry like there is an anti vaccination industry (making plenty of money on vitamin cures/ other so called "natural remedies".

I wonder if anyone has investigated the funding and finances of the anti vaccination industry?

I've posted several times on imamother that my baby had a vaccine reaction and almost died. She cried non-stop from the doctors office and for several more hours until she finally quieted. Thank G-d I checked on her, because she hadn't just quieted, she'd stopped breathing. I gave her mouth to mouth and she lived, B"H.

Frumdoc

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 4:57 am

chani8 wrote:

I've posted several times on imamother my baby had a vaccine reaction and almost died. She cried non-stop from the doctors office and for several more hours until she finally quieted. Thank G-d I checked on her, because she hadn't just quieted, she'd stopped breathing. I gave her mouth to mouth and she lived, B"H.

And I said I know they happen, sure they do. In the line after the one you bolded. Did you actually read what I wrote?

So you had one, very very scary vaccine reaction. You will make different decisions than someone who has not had that experience based on your emotional fear which impacts on your logical reason which I presume you apply to the relative risk analysis you make when it comes to vaccination.

I have seen too many people to count get sick from tylenol, and treated many many with old polio who are in wheelchairs, or who have lung scarring from chicken pox, or epilepsy from measles, or congenital rubella, and plenty die from flu this year.

Those were all pretty scary for the patient as well. There is real fear and real suffering from diseases we vaccinate against, otherwise there would be no benefit in developing the vaccination - there are not done for totally benign diseases.

Frumdoc

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 5:01 am

amother wrote:

So far, the venom, as usual, has been from the anti vaccinators, one in particular.

Calling doctors pedophiles, or "flat earth thinkers", under the influence of drug companies, being bribed or brainwashed, unable to think for themselves, too stupid to understand the studies, etc etc, is pretty venemous.