Doctors will not see patients with anti-vaccine views

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Frenchfry

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 2:31 pm

I do vax my kids, but I agree with the mom who was upset about the doctor's attitude to her baby who didn't have hep B. Here in Canada, you get that one in school in seventh grade. I get that globally you'd want to give that early where 7th grade isn't early enough for some, but I as an informed parent am bright enough to realize that its not necessary for my child at birth or 2 mos

The doctor just went by protocol, regardless of the cicumstances.

Its similar in a way to the eye drops they give at birth. I always decline them, but from what I understand, in New York State they will call CPS if you decline. Another example of standing on ceremony for protocol, without consideration for individual circumstances.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 2:48 pm

Those eye drops do sound icky but it has to do with blindness from syphilis. Syphilis isn't dead. It's around. As the drops do no harm I would not fuss.

Same with the Hep B.

We simply do not know who is waiting on line at the supermarket behind us. It's a big complicated world now and there is no way to say "well, I am not around that kind of people." Hep B lasts several hours on surfaces people touch. We can't live in a plastic bubble.

Most of our husbands are nice but are you so sure not one single husband here hasn't been to a prstutite and got syphilis? Probably not. NY state doesn't want to fool around and I can understand that.

Take the protections you can get.

Don't assume you know everything about your environment, even in the midst of a world famous, solidly frum community.

Prudence is good.

Frenchfry

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 2:53 pm

The blindness that the eyedrops are preventing can only be caused if the mother has ghonnorea or chlamidia. Both of them are STDs

greenhelm

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 3:03 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

The blindness that the eyedrops are preventing can only be caused if the mother has ghonnorea or chlamidia. Both of them are STDs

Both of those STIs can be present without symptoms. In addition, children of hep b carriers ( in ontario anyway) are immunized at birth, while other high risk groups will be immunized soon after (those with household contacts that are carriers, children with families coming from endemic area, among others). I've even seen kids bitten at daycare receiving hep b vaccine early.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 3:03 pm

Yes. She can get that stuff from her husband.

And possibly not know she has it.

She can by asymptomatic.

She can have got it recently and it isn't obvious yet, but it is there, and can do harm.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 3:05 pm

It's a dirtier world than your mothers remember. There is more gunk around now. And the old gunk has had time to adapt and is tougher than it was in your mother's day.

Do not be complacent. Take what you can get, to fight it. Prudence is good.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 3:07 pm

The proverb says "the more dirt, the less hurt".

It is true that too-clean environments do not develop the immune system enough. The "dirt" in that proverb includes the stuff in the vaccines.

The kid needs those "toxins".

Dirt is GOOD for you.

dancingqueen

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 3:59 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

The blindness that the eyedrops are preventing can only be caused if the mother has ghonnorea or chlamidia. Both of them are STDs

This is not true. The antibiotic drops also protect against any (naturally occurring) bacteria that live in the vaginal canal.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:40 pm

It's not utterly ridiculous because your neighbor's cleaning woman's nephew, who is living with her for the moment, is a heroin addict, and has this disease. The cleaner is unsteady on her feet, and grasps the same stair bannister you do. Hep B lasts for several hours on towels and surfaces.

If anybody in your house works, he or she may have opened a door also opened by that very same nephew or one of his charming friends. They are young, sick, and ambulatory.

There. Fixed that for you.

Frenchfry

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:45 pm

Are you implying that I can get Hep B from touching the bars on a city bus?????

BTW, 2 different OBs and my pediatrician confirmed with me that the eye drops are given to everyone as a matter of protocol, but only necessary for those with ghonorea or chlamydia. (Now those who refuse the vitamin K shot I don't understand...)

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:48 pm

It is intelligent to keep one's hands away from one's eyes (a direct portal to the body, warm and wet) and mouth too until they have been washed.

Itch your eye itches with a knuckle or something, not a finger.

However you will probably be fine.

It is not stupid to use every armament available for someone as frail as a small baby. That is their point and it is a good point.

YOU can be treated. YOU have full grown organs and lots of blood volume and a terrific, street-smart, immune system. The baby has none of those things. That's the point.

Get the eye drops.

They do no harm and we do not all have angels for husbands. Most of us do however. But we have procedures for the unusual. That's why we lock our doors. It wouldn't matter most of the time, but we do anyway.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:50 pm

Gonnorhea isn't common B"H but Chlamydia is much more common and you can not know you have it and it can bloom at the last minute before birth.

These procedures are valuable.

MagentaYenta

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:52 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

I'm wondering where the cleaning person with an addicted nephew came from...

Frenchfry

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:56 pm

You can know that you definitely don't have chlamydia. (After being married to one man and having a bunch of kids, I'd say that I'm in a pretty good position to deny the protocol).

It just bothers me when everything is done as a matter of protocol, leaving us to second guess whether a doctor's decision really applies to me or my kid.

amother

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:58 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

(Now those who refuse the vitamin K shot I don't understand...)

What's this got to do with the thread here at all???? I don't give the vitamin k shot. But not because it's a shot and I don't believe in vaccines. Vitamin K is not a vaccine and the only thing the two have in common is that they're shots. There is plenty to say on both sides of the issue, but it's irrelevant to the current discussion. Like saying, those who paint their dining room walls red I don't understand.

Hashem_Yaazor

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 10:02 pm

amother wrote:

And yet at the height of the polio epidemic here, close to 50% of those who got it either died or remained paralyzed, including my mother's older sister, who tragically was paralyzed and then died.

Are you implying that the vaccine causes (G-d forbid!) paraplegia in 50% of those who receive it?

If you lived in the 1950s, which odds would you bet on?

I just need to clarify this -- nothing to do with vaccines, but rather to have proper education on the virus itself (and yes, I do know people who suffered life long damage from polio. I am just giving information here, not an opinion, no bashing or misinterpreting my post, please!)

http://kidshealth.org/parent/I......html

Signs and Symptoms

Polio is a viral illness that, in about 95% of cases, actually produces no symptoms at all (called asymptomatic polio). In the 4% to 8% of cases in which there are symptoms (called symptomatic polio), the illness appears in three forms:

a mild form called abortive polio (most people with this type may not even suspect they have it because their sickness is limited to mild flu-like symptoms such as mild upper respiratory infection, diarrhea, fever, sore throat, and a general feeling of being ill)
a more serious form associated with aseptic meningitis called nonparalytic polio (1%-5% show neurological symptoms such as sensitivity to light and neck stiffness)
a severe, debilitating form called paralytic polio (this occurs in 0.1%-2% of cases)

People who have abortive polio or nonparalytic polio usually make a full recovery. However, paralytic polio, as its name implies, causes muscle paralysis — and can even result in death.

In paralytic polio, the virus leaves the intestinal tract and enters the bloodstream, attacking the nerves (in abortive or asymptomatic polio, the virus usually doesn't get past the intestinal tract). The virus may affect the nerves governing the muscles in the limbs and the muscles necessary for breathing, causing respiratory difficulty and paralysis of the arms and legs.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 10:06 pm

Protocols exist because nobody can ever know that THIS time won't be different.

That is why we lock our doors.

Protocols are the fruit of experience over large populations. They have validity exactly because they are not about you in particular. Or your particular kid. Or this particular one of your kids.

Stuff happens.

If there is no downside to the protocol, you do it.

Frenchfry

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 10:11 pm

"What's this got to do with the thread here at all???? I don't give the vitamin k shot. But not because it's a shot and I don't believe in vaccines. Vitamin K is not a vaccine and the only thing the two have in common is that they're shots. There is plenty to say on both sides of the issue, but it's irrelevant to the current discussion. Like saying, those who paint their dining room walls red I don't understand."

Sorry, you're right. I only mentioned it because the eyedrops and k shot are both given by protocol a few minutes after birth, and when I refuse the eye drops, I'm always asked if I'm refusing the K shot too.

But you're right that it doesn't belong on this thread. Maybe one day I'll start a different thread asking why someone would refuse the K shot.

greenhelm

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 10:39 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

G-d forbid this happens to you, but I can tell you for sure, there has been many a woman in your position (one man, a bunch of kids) who have tested positive for STIs such as chlamydia and had no inkling they were at risk. The thing is, one may not be aware that they have been infected, and their child ends up paying the price.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Feb 02 2015, 12:56 am

With regards to STIs many states have laws that make STI testing mandatory for pregnant woman. Typically in these states STI testing is part of the first blood draws taken at prenatal visits. It's a good idea to know your state laws.

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