Principal took away cell phone is this fair?

amother

Sienna

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 7:21 am

rockingbells wrote:

Once, in high school, my teacher took away my cell phone because I was texting in class. Since I'd seen him take away phones and read text messages out loud to the class I pulled out the battery before handing it to him. He got so mad.

I think taking away the phone makes sense but looking through it is wrong. Schools that discipline and operate like that seem so unprofessional to me. I wouldn't want my child in such a school.

[quote]

When my dd was in 8th grade it happened to her. She was caught with her cell phone in school. Ironically she had been calling me, crying.... She was going through a difficult emotional stage. Well, she got caught and it got confiscated. She took out the battery first.

Long story short, she was not allowed to return to school until dh and I came in, with the battery, and sat there while principal went through her contact list and questioned us about them.

Ironically, dd was the last girl in the class to get a phone. Not that it matters. But the entire class was in her contact list.

Mainstream yeshivish style school that's a little more to the right than its overall parent body.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 7:42 am

vicki wrote:

I think this is the wrong question.
The kid did wrong. The kids in his contact list did wrong. They deserve the consequences. Focus on that. To turn it around to the principal being the villain is missing the point.
Did he do wrong? Maybe. But that is a topic for another day.

It's not a topic for another day, it's the topic OP was talking about. No one said they don't deserve consequences. The question was whether what the principal dos was right or not.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 7:49 am

[quote="amother"]

Quote:

When my dd was in 8th grade it happened to her. She was caught with her cell phone in school. Ironically she had been calling me, crying.... She was going through a difficult emotional stage. Well, she got caught and it got confiscated. She took out the battery first.

Long story short, she was not allowed to return to school until dh and I came in, with the battery, and sat there while principal went through her contact list and questioned us about them.

Ironically, dd was the last girl in the class to get a phone. Not that it matters. But the entire class was in her contact list.

Mainstream yeshivish style school that's a little more to the right than its overall parent body.

Reminds me of my high school days...
My principal actually took my iPod and went Through it and then yelled at me for listening to secular music...
I wish these principals knew that treating students like babies is so demeaning and won't enhance their fire of anything school or yiddishkeit related. It certainly made me distrust adults, when I came from a dysfunctional home and could have used all the healthy adult relationships I could make...

DrMom

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 7:51 am

vicki wrote:

No.. that is the OP's topic for today. Why shouldn't the principal's actions be examined?

Tablepoetry

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 8:40 am

DrMom wrote:

No.. that is the OP's topic for today. Why shouldn't the principal's actions be examined?

Definitely.
Another thing....the kids who were on the contact list might blame the kid caught. For example, in the case above where a girl called home crying. Her 'indiscretion' led to the entire class getting into trouble.
The principal made her into a 'malshina'/tattle tale without her permission.

Could cause a lot of social problems, especially for a kid who has problems anyway.

Just wrong on ALL fronts.

JAWSCIENCE

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 8:57 am

[quote="amother"]

Quote:

Why did you give in and allow this? I would get the rest of the class parents involved. Bad enough the principal wants to violate her privacy. She doesn't need her parents participating by giving I the battery and watching. I know you felt forced but it's hard for a teen to see it that way. They would likely prefer to stay home and feel like they have parental support. The principal had no right to that battery and if he continued to threaten, not return the phone and nit allow her back to school you could seek legal action or simply switch schools who wants to be involved with such a dispicable tyrant? His next move is going to be " do xyz or I'll block all
Your shidduchim" This is how we get molesters and kids sitting out of schools because parents are not bribing the administration to get an admission - allowing unrestricted power and caving as parents rather than protecting our children.
I'm not directing all of this at you amother. Your post just brings up a lot of feelings for me. Parents should protect their kids. Mine always stood up for me when Appropriate and I think it's why all of my siblings turned out so well. The family was a supportive unit. And believe me we'd be disciplined for breaking A school rule. But nobody could violate our privacy or hold my parents hostage like this.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 9:01 am

Tablepoetry wrote:

Well, in our case dd WAS struggling, as I mentioned, and this struggle continued, profoundly, throughout high school.

Of course this was not CAUSED by the school's actions. But I can assert with a clarity that comes from experience in the trenches, from my dd and the other otd kids we spent her high-school years with, that these types of aggressive, zero- tolerance, zero- compassion policies on the part of schools and educators, sends these kids running for the hills from any adult who even resembles a frum Jew.

These social/technological realities are here to stay. These schools have got to come up with a better plan.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 9:04 am

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

In a nutshell, I agree.... Starting the work day now, but if you're interested, I can certainly fill in a few more details of the how and the why later.....

amother

Teal

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 9:22 am

To whomever said why does a teenager need a phone- hello! I think anyone these days who travels alone needs a phone. There are crazies and sickos out there and in the case of an emergency a phone should DEF be around.... In regards to the principal looking through his phone, I'm "modern yeshivish" if you'd call me, so I live in a total diff world than that. But I would take actions against him.

Chayalle

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 9:33 am

Tablepoetry wrote:

It's well known???? It's horrifying in my book. A cellphone these days is like a private diary. You don't just rifle through someone's diary, principal or no principal!
That's why everyone should have their phone password protected, including kids.
My dds' school also doesn't allow smartphones, although every one has one in their bag. If you are caught, they confiscate it, and the parents need to pick it up (that's enough punishment...parents are mad at inconvenience, kid upset they dont have cellphone for a day or two). I would be horrified if the principal went through my dds' contacts. Not his business who she is in contact with or what nicknames she gave them.

As you can see by the first bolded statement....it obviously is not enough of a deterrent if everyone has one in their bag.....

It most definitely well known where I live, that one person getting caught ends up exposing the whole group. It's nothing new and it's how some schools enforce a school rule.

For the poster asking why a teen needs a cellphone...needs are created by groups. If everyone has something, and you are part of that group, you end up needing it. Why do you need a car? Or a refrigerator?

When everyone in my DD's class had a cellphone and texting, not having one meant being isolated socially, not getting class messages, not being part of the group. Comes a point where it's a need (unless your teen is a social wallflower....)

gittelchana

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 9:52 am

sourstix wrote:

what is this principal trying to teach his students? that its ok to do geneivas daas? I call this geneiva. stealing. this is against halacha. I wouldnt trust such a principal ever!

This isn't Gnaivas Daas. GD is causing someone to think one thing while doing another.

It definitely is something that you aren't allowed to do in general. However, you'd be hard pressed to find a source in Halacha that forbids a principal from doing this to a student.

sourstix

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 10:03 am

to me this is stealing. reading or taking something without permission is stealing period. nothing to argue about.

he could have asked the said student what contacts he has. he should have had a conversation with him. there is a way to get info if you want. this is in a very crooked manner. very stupid.

ill agree that the parents shouldnt have given phones. not even arguing about that. but the principals behavior is appalling. thats not what I call chinuch. I wish I knew who it was I would look down at that type of behavior.

am I overeacting? I dont know. its my gut reaction

naturalmom5

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 10:04 am

gittelchana wrote:

If the student has numbers for mental health professional that is a serious crime on the part of the principal
How about Dina dMalchusa Dina and Chilul Hashem if someone should press charges against prin

amother

Green

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 10:40 am

gittelchana wrote:

You could probably press charges for having your phone taken away too.

I teach in NYC and my principal specifically asked a lawyer if it is illegal to confiscate a student's cellphone when there is a rule that cell phones may not be brought to school. The answer was that it is totally legal for a principal to confiscate student's property if brought to school (against the rules). Phones included.

We had a student that threatened to call the police when her phone was confiscated for a week, and my principal wanted to cover herself (which is why she called a lawyer).

That said, the principal in my school would NEVER go through a student's contacts. She actually treats the students like human beings.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 11:15 am

Chayalle wrote:

For the poster asking why a teen needs a cellphone...needs are created by groups. If everyone has something, and you are part of that group, you end up needing it. Why do you need a car? Or a refrigerator?

When everyone in my DD's class had a cellphone and texting, not having one meant being isolated socially, not getting class messages, not being part of the group. Comes a point where it's a need (unless your teen is a social wallflower....)

I don't know about you, but there is not great public transportation where I live, and I'm at appointments for myself and my kids every week. If I had to rely on car services, I'd be broke. It's only $7 to get to the grocery store, but it quickly adds up. I don't have a car because other people do. I have a car because I NEED one.
I understand the point you are trying to make, but your comparison is off, as many people have cars out of necessity.
I agree that when "everyone" in a high school peer group has something, the one who doesnt can very often be ostracized.

Chayalle

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 11:41 am

eema of 3 wrote:

The reason you need a car is because everyone has one, otherwise the demand would be such that public transportation would be better, or your life wouldn't be set up with apointments....

Society creates needs according to its norms.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Jan 14 2016, 12:03 pm

sourstix wrote:

I'm the poster with the dd whose phone got taken. At the time this happened, my reaction was very strong. It brought back memories of a traumatic incident from my own childhood in which my best friend's diary was confiscated and used by one parent in court as part of a custody dispute. I initially refused to bring the phone, and the principal's response was basically, "well then, see ya!"

It was the middle of 8th grade and after talking to dd about it, she felt she just wanted to end the issue, graduate, and move on. I felt that uprooting her in such a drastic way would cause more harm than good. There was nothing in the phone that she personally was ashamed of, or was afraid would be seen, just her overall awareness that the principal disapproved of it all.

She graduated and moved on. But her distaste for this community is palpable and it breaks my heart.