FBI raid in Monsey - Amother enabled

happyone

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 3:58 pm

Mevater wrote:

Just curious, are there any male or female FRUM (Shomer Shabbos is my definition of frum) doctors lawyers dentists etc who were Satmar students (or from other Chassidish schools teaching limited english)?

Yes! I actually know one guy from Chassidish Yeshiva that is an oncologist today. I know one with a phd, several social workers. Two guys with special education degrees, 2 speech therapists, 2 nurses, 1 PA and one lawyer. I also know and work with MANY individuals earning a lot more than Doctors and Lawyers and have been through the "limited " chassidish system. It's about your own motivation and brains to get to where you need to. Stop blaming the system! It may be limited but its not limiting if you choose further education !!

Last edited by happyone on Fri, Mar 18 2016, 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Maya

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 3:58 pm

amother wrote:

My niece in the MO school is getting a top notch education.

My niece in the Pupa school is getting an adequate education.

My niece in Satmar is NOT getting an adequate education and is being screwed over because of it. And she is in high school while the other two are still in elementary school which makes it even worse.
.

Your niece in Pupa is getting a better general studies education than your niece in Satmar? I find that hard to believe, knowing the many Pupa girls that I do.

Can you elaborate on which subjects or skills they are teaching more than in Satmar?

On second thought, perhaps you mean the new Satmar school. I can't speak as to their standards as I have not attended that school.

dancingqueen

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:09 pm

amother wrote:

There you go twisting my words.

I didn't say the paper is worthless. Far from it.

I explained that Satmar prepared me well for it, and I simply needed to go through two months of extra work to get the paper evidence. It would have been nice to have it handed to me by graduation, but I am not stewing in anger over the fact that I didn't. In the scheme of things getting the TASC (GED new version) was not a big deal and I'm not sure why it is so huge a mountain to you.

The culture I come from does not value higher education. That is unfortunate but I accept it as part of the package. I do not feel that I was deprived, abused, or neglected. I'm sorry that you do and I wish you luck in letting go of your resentments. I suggested you look a bit deeper to see what else is making you so angry.

Why can't someone legitimately be upset about a lack of education if they feel that it held them back in life? Does that definitely mean they have deeper issues?

Also, people keep pointing out chassidish men who end up becoming successful businessmen despite their lack of education, as if that means everyone should be able to do so. But shouldn't they get a better education so more people have a shot at being successful?

amother

Mustard

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:10 pm

Mevater wrote:

Parents are in a difficult place, often having to choose between family relationships, involving the people they love, and better educations for their children.

Back to mental health, are we?

Getting over codependent tendencies helps people make the choices that are right, instead of worrying what tante mirel or baba tzirel will say.

amother

Mustard

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:14 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

That has not been my experience. I'm sure there are exceptions.

And I didn't say they can't. And I even said if they can go ahead and change things for their children that's a great use of that anger. But the pain sounds deeper.

amother

Aqua

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:17 pm

happyone wrote:

That is quite a few chasidishe men with advanced degrees. Do you know which chasidishe yeshivas they went to? Or if they qualified for the BTL allowing them to go directly to graduate school?

I also want to point out that the chasidishe men do sit and learn all day so that is advanced learning even if it's not in English. Some men have bragged how that helped them in college and a few even said that college was easier because they didn't have to study for so many hours a day. And they compared themselves to foreign students who have limited English but do have the abilities to think critically and are able to do the work despite the limited English so the men or at least some of them didn't think that their low level secular education held them back.

Mevater

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:43 pm

amother wrote:

Back to mental health, are we?

Getting over codependent tendencies helps people make the choices that are right, instead of worrying what tante mirel or baba tzirel will say.

This isnt my background at all, but its troubling if you dont want to traumatize hurt and pain tante mirel and especially baba tzirel.

cnc

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:44 pm

happyone wrote:

I can think of OTs and STs many SEITs(although the SEITs went to TTI). A dentist that went to NYU dental school. Someone that went to medical school in Buffalo. A couple of certified Nurse Practitioners.

All male. All.went through the chassidish yeshiva system. All look chassidish.

Maya

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:46 pm

happyone wrote:

The system can certainly be blamed, even if some rise above it.

amother

Salmon

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:52 pm

amother wrote:

Im having trouble picturing it, because Ive never come across Satmar graduate nurses, etc. Has their (and most Satmar graduates who got advanced degrees) secular edication affected their level of frumkeit? If yes, to what degree?

I am a modern orthodox mental health professional and have two chassidish nurses who currently work with me and a few years ago had a chassidish social worker

amother

Aqua

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:00 pm

amother wrote:

Back to mental health, are we?

Getting over codependent tendencies helps people make the choices that are right, instead of worrying what tante mirel or baba tzirel will say.

I guess the entire satmar community is mentally ill and co-dependent. Or is it only the parents who send their kids to Satmar school?

amother

Aqua

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:02 pm

amother wrote:

I am a modern orthodox mental health professional and have two chassidish nurses who currently work with me and a few years ago had a chassidish social worker

Do you know which chasidishe schools they went to?

gp2.0

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:11 pm

amother wrote:

Well the old Satmar elementary building had a zillion nooks and crannies. I found the oddest books tucked into strange corners, not necessarily student textbooks.

There was this collection of short stories I spirited away from behind a steam pipe in the summer during fifth grade daycamp (the pool was in the yard there...) When I realized it was romance stories I was terrified to be caught returning it.

I LOVE this story. Very Happy

amother

Aqua

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:12 pm

cnc wrote:

It's ironic that so many chasidishe men have advanced degrees even though they have a lower level secular education than the girls. I don't know why anyone is complaining because the men seem to be doing just fine so there is no need to change anything. I mean, that is the argument that some people's make when it comes to the girls (that if some satmar girls do just fine then all satmar girls do just fine as well and there is no need to change anything) so I will use that same logic when it comes to the boys--some boys do just fine then it must be that all boys can do fine as well so there is no need to change anything because their education is obviously adequate.

But do you know which yeshivas they attended?

amother

Orchid

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:17 pm

Don't I love these answers, "there are so many chassidishe men who own businesses despite their lack of education."

The chassidishe community "makes it".

Okay. Let's get real. Making it means not relying on govt benefits and able to afford normal daily stuff. I am not taking about rich. As a community as a whole, how many can do that? 10% is not enough.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:25 pm

The satmar school is catering to what the majority of parents want.

For example we had computers in 10th grade and now they only have from 11th and there still are parents fighting for the girls not to have computer classes at all.

Most of these parents do not want their daughters to study and become professionals. We don't want our kids to go to college. For those that do feel cheated, what are your families values? Do you have the same goals as your parents have?

Maya

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:26 pm

amother wrote:

I agree. So someone knows fifteen men with advanced degrees. Yay. What about the other TENS of THOUSANDS who can't make it to those degrees? Or can't make it in business and have to rely on salaries that can't support their families?

amother

Aqua

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:53 pm

Maya wrote:

Aren't you doing the same thing with the girls? 10 women said that they didn't struggle in college (without considering which college they went to or if they got a fake diploma etc) and that obviously means that thousand of Satmar graduates don't struggle in college or wouldn't struggle if they decide to go to college? Why is it okay to say that about the girls but not the boys?

amother

Mustard

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:56 pm

amother wrote:

Exactly. Well said.

Maya

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:59 pm

amother wrote:

Because the level of education is so vastly different, it can't be compared.

Last edited by Maya on Fri, Mar 18 2016, 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total