Censorship of non-Jewish Books

gryp

Mon, Jul 18 2005, 9:04 am

Quote:

well, someone pm'd me, suggesting that the reason why you and some other posters described discussing certain topics in school (which I thought were off-limits) was because Judy Blume's books broke the tznius barrier

maybe. but Judy Blume was not on the list of things I was allowed to read back then, although a few of my classmates did.

lucy

Sun, Jul 24 2005, 12:23 am

So far I haven't taken my kids, haven't felt the need to!
(I guess it's that I buy many books for them, bit of a weekness embarrassed

).

You're saying public lib. what about the one in school? I was shocked to find out from someone that my daughter's school had Harry Potter in it! Sorry for those of you who reead it, but if one is trying to implement no nonjewish books in their home & has to even taboo books from school!???

It's a very hard line, bc you don't want to restrict your children to the extent that when they are older will be hiding the books from you later on!

tzivi

Sun, Jul 24 2005, 12:36 am

my children mostly read yiddishe books. most people have already said this, but I'd just like to reiterate that THERE ARE DEFINITELY NOT NEARLY ENOUGH GOOD JEWISH BOOKS. they are also very very expensive to purchase heer in australia.

curlyhead

Sun, Jul 24 2005, 12:47 am

tzivi - join your local jewish library.

de_goldy

Sun, Jul 24 2005, 1:14 am

which happens to be run very poorly, has an extremely small range of books, gets new books months after they come out and then they are in such high demand that it can take up to a year until you even SEE it on the shelf.

TzenaRena

Mon, Jul 25 2005, 10:25 am

RG wrote:

Quote:

maybe. but Judy Blume was not on the list of things I was allowed to read back then, although a few of my classmates did.

Who is Judy Blume and what does she write about? Which books has she authored? ( Sorry for my ignorance!)

miriam

Mon, Jul 25 2005, 1:52 pm

SaraYehudis wrote:

Who is Judy Blume and what does she write about? Which books has she authored? ( Sorry for my ignorance!)

She wrote some nice elementary school aged fiction but then she wrote coming of age teenage books that really need to be censored by parents.

Motek

Mon, Jul 25 2005, 5:45 pm

and if you read the link I posted a few posts back, you will quickly see why Judy Blume's books were gobbled up by kids and censored by adults!

Tefila

Mon, Jul 25 2005, 7:35 pm

If one imbues the child from an early age to only read Jewish books then later on even if occassionaly they will read other books, or parenting mags at Dr's office, airports etc then it will hopefully be harmless. And true there r some kosher non jewish books on the market but so far my kids are just reading the jewish ones.
Boys it's nowhere near as a problem as it is girls since w/h all their learning davening etc. They have less time to read.
I will tell you though from personal experiance if a child is a dreamer, passionate or has an avid imagination they very easily can be influenced by the book! I loved Alfred Hitchkocks mystery books and the Hardy boys. I dreamt of doing detective things and other stuff myself. What a waste when I couldv'e been dreaming about more important stuff. Rolling Eyes

Even w/h jewish books my kids teenagers, know which publishers r ok and which r questionable and they will ask us if not sure.My son loves reading the meam loaz don't ask what he knows embarrassed

But atleast it's a kosher source.

lucy

Mon, Jul 25 2005, 9:30 pm

There are many nonJewish book which could be considered kosher, the problem is (I will probably sound really lazy) is that you have to read/screan all of them. Which when you have a few kids is not such a problem. But when your family continues to grow IY"H time is limited & you simply don't have enough time to start read a 300 pg novel for your 13 yrld waiting for the okay! I think that that is the main jist!

mommy2

Tue, Jul 26 2005, 8:23 pm

I think its fine to read to your kids non Jewish books from the library when the kids are little, u r censoring them b/c u r choosing them. When they get older I think it should be only Jewish books b/c many books have topics u dont want ur kids reading. Unless its pareve books like on crafts, baking etc

hisorerus

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 12:19 pm

I wrote up the following dialogue to show how I might explain my refusal to allow even Jewish novels in the house. What do you think? (Obviously, I haven't reached the stage in life yet where this is necessary.)

D: (bursting in the door) Ma, how come you never let me read novels? It's not fair! I...

M: Hi Zeeskeit, it sounds like you're very upset about something.

D: Yeah! It's not fair that you never let me read anything I want!

M: Hmm, this sounds like a serious issue. I won't be able to give you my full attention until the lokshen is ready. How about I meet you in your room in (looks at watch) 6 minutes?

D: (stomps off)

8 minutes later:

M: I'm sorry I'm a bit late. I had to get Yossi to keep an eye on the baby.

D: (obviously having prepared for this) MA, EVERY SINGLE OTHER GIRL IN MY CLASS IS ALLOWED TO READ NOVELS! EVERYONE! EVEN [X]'S DAUGHTER! AND YOU ALWAYS TELL ME WHAT A SPECIAL LADY SHE IS! AND-

M: (holds out hand) It looks like you feel very strongly about this issue. I think you're feeling left out that everyone else is allowed to and I don't let you.

D: Yeah, how come you only let me read those stupid chassidishe books and nothing else? Not even [X] book! And it's even written by a Jewish lady!

M: You feel like you're missing out by reading only Lubavitch books.

D: What's wrong with [X]?

M: What do you think? Why don't I want you to read novels?

D: Because you think they have bad stuff in them! But they DON'T! The authors are FRUM! And EVERYONE gets to read them!

M: So you think I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just an old Mommy who likes only Memoirs. (winks)

D: (finally smiles) No, but really, Ma, all those books are so boring! And the novels are so exciting! The girls tallk about them all the time!

M: Well, you know what the Hayom Yom says about comparing ourselves to other people.

D: What do you mean?

M: In gashmius, we look at people who have less than us...

D: And we look up for Ruchnius. But what's wrong with the novels?

M: Well, believe it or not, your Mommy has done a bit of reading in her life!

D: So you read them too? I'm the only one who doesn't get to!

M: When I got older, I regretted having read them. So I promised myself you wouldn't have to have the same problem as me.

D: What was the problem?

M: Well, that's probably the topic for another conversation. Let me mark it down to remember to tell you later. (jots down on memo pad in pocket) But in the meantime, I think we need to find a solution to this issue. What would you like to happen?

D: Just let me read what I want!

M: Remember how me and Tatty were discussing the concept of "heter" last night?

D: Yeah.

M: So a heter is when you need to compromise a bit in one thing to prevent a more serious problem. Tell me the truth (smiling), if I tell you that novels past nisht far dir, would you really not read them?

D: No... well, maybe just a few (guilty grin).

M: I understand! (grins back) So right now, if I don't let you read books that are less than ideal for a chassidishe maidele, we're going to have a problem with Kibud Av V'em. Can I propose a solution?

D: What?

M: Let me suggest a few novels that are less problematic. I will let you read them for as long as you need this "heter". Just please show them to me first.

D: But you'll say no to EVERYTHING!

M: Who me? (winks) OK, here's the deal: If I say no to a certain book, it's my job to find you another one that I don't mind you reading. Is it a deal?

D: OK!

M: Just don't let me read them, because I've been trying hard to get over this Taava of mine.

D: Good! (laughing) Now you can feel left out too!

M: (also laughing) Poor, poor Mommy. She only gets to serve supper- how about now? Are you ready to eat?

(Mommy hugs daughter, and then both go down to rescue Yossi who is speedily tiring of big brother duty.)

Mommy912

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 12:35 pm

hisorerus wrote:

M: So a heter is when you need to compromise a bit in one thing to prevent a more serious problem.

WHAT!!!!????

A heter is not compromising one thing to prevent something else. It is a permissive ruling issued (hopefully) by a rav - and can be relied on equally. When a psak is given - it makes no difference if it was issued by the rav using a heter, kula or directly stated in the Torah.

hisorerus

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 12:52 pm

This really belongs in a different thread.

A heter is only for one person, the person whom it was issued for, weighing the particular issues in their circumstances.

A kula is where Halacha clearly states it's OK to be lenient on this issue.

Not every heter is a true heter, but those that are, it would seem to contradict Halacha. The Rav takes the most lenient opinion, because it is better than being over on something worse. Note that most heters are time-delimited.

Many people can rely on a kula, but a heter is only valid for the one it was issued for.

1stimer

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 1:00 pm

Quote:

The Rav takes the most lenient opinion, because it is better than being over on something worse.

Not necessarily, e.g. some women have a heter to do less than 14 bedikos during the 7 days. Why? Because if they do all 14 bedikos they will scratch themselves and find blood (which btw, being that the blood is not uterine bleeding is muttar) So for them doing x bedikos is the HALACHA.

Also the lenient view is THE HALACHA and the strict view is CHUMRA.

Mama Bear

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 1:31 pm

may I ask you humbly what's wrong with letting your daughter read Jewish novels?

didan

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 2:04 pm

B"H

If you noticed the thread title, it says "secular books" not Jewish novels.

However there are many novels written by Frum people and published by Frum publishing companies that have nothing to do with anything Jewish and I would hesitate before allowing my children to read them.

Hisorerus, I like it.

Last edited by didan on Tue, Mar 07 2006, 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

chocolate moose

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 2:13 pm

Mindy, Jewish novels are poorly written.

carrot

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 2:16 pm

Hisorerus, I'm impressed! To be honest I didn't expect that! Good luck, I think you have a high chance of success with this method of Chinuch!

(And I don't even believe in forbidding novels in the first place... So impressing me is quite a feat.)

hisorerus

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 2:23 pm

I don't like a lot of Jewish novels, because they are as non jewish as they come! My mother has recognized quite a few as old movies, including some of Yair Weinstock's. Some of Libby Lazewnik's books are simply kosherized romance novels. Yes, I enjoy reading these books, but for as long as my children can do without, I think they'll be more pure that way.

I didn't post to debate heterim, really, although I see your point that it can be defined differently, but to see if I can adequately give over the message that I'd rather NOT have X or Y in my house, I don't think it's TREIF, and if you need it, I can compromise.