WO! Now I really believe in R' Nachman - Uman- Rosh Hashana!

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Rosh Hashana-Yom Kippur

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amother

Thu, Aug 16 2007, 6:22 am

Quote:

I'm sure lots of women have received Rosh Hashana due dates after davening very hard on Rosh Hashana.

LOL!!!! I became pregnant following a Motzei Yom Kippur mikva, after more than a year of trying.
But we davened in a small shul in a basement in Brooklyn!!!!
In all seriousness, I totally believe that Hashem can hear your tefillos wherever you are, but sometimes the quality of your tefilla increases when you are inspired by your environment.
The tears and crying and Kavanna of the weekday Mincha I davened at the Kotel recently, was a far cry from a weekday Mincha in my living room waiting for the school buses, with a napping baby about to awaken, and supper on the stove.

Motek

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:00 am

chocolate moose wrote:

Could be the placebo effect.

huh? placebos have to do with medicine, how does it apply here?

shalhevet wrote:

miriamnechama wrote:

but I some how see soo clearly that the lubab rebbe sees and know exactly what is going on in my life,

I think you meant to write Hakadosh Baruch Hu.

She meant what she wrote.

The Rogotchover Gaon ( R' Yosef Rosen (1858 - 1936) also known by the name of his main work Tzafnas Paneach, was one of the prominent Talmudic scholars of the early 20th century, known as a "Gaon" (genius) because of his photographic memory and razor-sharp mind.

He once explained what a Rebbe is to the talmidim of the Lubavitcher yeshiva Tomchei Tmimim as follows: Every evening the Rebbe scans the entire world. If he sees that at the ends of the world, a young man is in a material crisis, he turns to Hashem and demands that he remove the physical cares from that person. He promises that through that, no doubt the person’s ruchnius would be elevated. That is why the tzaddik is called the “einei ha’eida” (eyes of the flock), because he sees everything which concerns his flock.

Motek

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:07 am

shalhevet wrote:

could you please explain the kedusha of a house that a tzaddik used to live in?

Not only a house but any of his belongings have kedusha. There are numerous stories that illustrate this point but I won't bring those stories here. The source can be seen in the Chazal (Pesachim 212 a) "Kol hanotel pruteh ma'Iyov misborech" (=whoever takes a pruteh from Job is blessed).

Iyov/Job was a G-d fearing and righteous man. About this righteous man, the Gemara says that his blessings were in all of his belongings, so if a man took a pruteh [the name of the coin with the lowest value in Talmudic times] from him, he would be blessed and prosper.

chocolate moose

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:16 am

Motek wrote:

huh? placebos have to do with medicine, how does it apply here?

think about it. it's like the city couple who has trouble conceiving & the dr says move to suburbia. they do, life is muchless stressful, and they conceive.

basically, becaue they believe in it, it works. like a placebo does for medicine.

Motek

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:21 am

Another source is the ancient custom (brought in Rabeinu Becha'I Shemos and in his Shulchon shel Arba sha'ar alef, as a minhag from ancient times) that they used the table on which they fed the poor, as their coffin.

Yerushalmi Moed Katan 3:1 - one of the sages had the stick of Rabbi Meir and the stick taught him "daas".

When we perform a mitzva with an object of Olam Haze it acquires holiness. Our material possessions which we use as "divrei horeshus" (optional, not for mitzvos) don't become holy. But a Tzadik, whose actions are all devoted to serving Hashem "bechol drochecho do'ehu", imparts holiness even to divrei reshus.

Medrash Shir Hashirim 1:3 : The beis medrash of Reb Eliezer ... and a stone was there, which was designated for his seat, once, Reb Yehoshua (his nemesis!) entered - and began kissing that stone, and said: the stone is compared to Har Sinai".

Another source, this one straight out of the pasuk: Melachim 2, 2:8: And Eliyahu took his furcoat and wrapped it and hit the water and it split.

And in verse 14 we see Elisha his desciple, after his master's disappearance: He took Eliyahu's furcoat which fell from him and hit the water...and it split here and there.

Also in Melachim 2, 4:28: And he [Elisha] told Geichazi...take my staff in your hands...and you should put the staff on [the dead] lad.

Lechatchila Ariber

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:22 am

chocolate moose that is not what a placebo is. a placebo is giving someone a "blank" pill which they THINK is something else and it having an affect. telling a couple to reduce stress in their life is just telling them to reduce stress in the life, but its not giving them something under the illusion that its something else.

the problem I think motek has with your analogy is that its like saying there is no kedusha at holy sites

Last edited by Lechatchila Ariber on Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total

Motek

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:22 am

chocolate moose wrote:

they do, life is muchless stressful, and they conceive.

basically, becaue they believe in it, it works. like a placebo does for medicine.

It worked because they believed in it or it worked because tension can prevent conception? You wrote that it had to do with reduced stress and then concluded that it had to do with belief.

chocolate moose

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:25 am

EstiS wrote:

I am referring to the OP who said "she really believes in it now" and that's why I replied, what I replied. If nothing else, she believes in it. I am not discounting a tzaddik, I thought OP was.

chocolate moose

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:26 am

Motek wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

they do, life is muchless stressful, and they conceive.

basically, becaue they believe in it, it works. like a placebo does for medicine.

It worked because they believed in it or it worked because tension can prevent conception? You wrote that it had to do with reduced stress and then concluded that it had to do with belief.

all things being equal, let's say it's both. or all of them.

TammyTammy

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:30 am

amother wrote:

catonmylap wrote:

People "forget" all the things that did that didn't work.

OP here. Nothing ALWAYS works! If anything existed that ALWAYS works, we'd have push button success in everything we did and our Bitachon would never be tested.

Now as far as the comments in posts above about placebo, etc. how can anyone write off an exact ROSH HASHANNAH due date, exactly one year to the date of prayers at UMAN, as placebo, coincidence, etc.?!

Actually, I can write it off very easily.

Depending on the year, there are only 350 some odd possible due dates anyway. As such, even if the due date were completely random, 2/350 ( or 1/175) is not a terrible longshot. Furthermore, when you add in the fact that certain days would not be possible as a due date anyway (depending on the cycle), the odds are actually quite less.

Tammy

TammyTammy

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 11:37 am

To further add to my point, since it was one year after the davening at Uman, the due date couldn't possibly be in the first nine months anyway, greatly further restricting the number of days that a due date could occur on.

Tammy

amother

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 12:15 pm

TammyTammy wrote:

The bottom line is you can rationalize anything if you want and attribute things to teva , that's why Hashem set up this world this way to maintain our bechira. But if you WANT to see yad Hashem in things, it's certainly possible...

TammyTammy

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 12:42 pm

amother wrote:

TammyTammy wrote:

I'm not arguing that point. What I am arguing about is how you made it sound like the odds against it were so astronomical that it could only have been due to Divine Providence. I was simply pointing out that the odds were not nearly as long as you thought they were.

Tammy

amother

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 12:45 pm

Quote:

Yad Hashem, yes.......
Yad Uman? That's the question.
Anyway, a Rosh Hashana due date doesn't mean the baby will be born on Rosh Hashana, or have a bris on Rosh Hashana.
As someone touched upon above, I have seen people try to raise community funds to pay for their trip to Uman. I don't consider that an appropriate use of public money.
But that's just me......

amother

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 12:54 pm

amother wrote:

TammyTammy wrote:

I think you might be suffering from a bad case of post hoc ergo prompter hoc. Smile

Tammy

What disease is that?

If I am not mistaken, it refers to Event A happens, then Event B happens. A must have caused B.
Correct me if I am wrong, Tammy.

TammyTammy

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 1:40 pm

amother wrote:

TammyTammy wrote:

I think you might be suffering from a bad case of post hoc ergo prompter hoc. Smile

Tammy

What disease is that?

If I am not mistaken, it refers to Event A happens, then Event B happens. A must have caused B.
Correct me if I am wrong, Tammy.

Yes, that's it. It's a logical fallacy that if Event B happened after Event A, then it must have been caused by Event A.

Tammy

Motek

Fri, Aug 17 2007, 1:42 pm

EstiS wrote:

the problem I think motek has with your analogy is that its like saying there is no kedusha at holy sites

I didn't think that. I merely thought the word "placebo" had no place in this discussion.

TammyTammy wrote:

What I am arguing about is how you made it sound like the odds against it were so astronomical that it could only have been due to Divine Providence. I was simply pointing out that the odds were not nearly as long as you thought they were.Tammy

I agree.

Having said that, we believe that all is by Divine Providence. Sometimes this is more apparent than at other times. I am sure that for the person who went to Uman to daven at the kever of a tzadik, who saw their request fulfilled (they conceived) within months of being there, it is very exciting.

amother

Sat, Aug 18 2007, 7:38 pm

I thought for some reason that praying at graves was accepted practice by all jews. You are not praying to the dead. You pray to Hashem and the soul of the departed that you are visiting with tries to get your tefilos to the "frontline" faster than you alone. Doesnt all types go to kever rochel? So if someone is Breslov why cant they go to uman? Tzaddkim dont pratice magic, but they can use their zechutim to posiibly help you get your tefilos.

Another thing - how exactly did this turn into a lub. fight again?

TzenaRena

Sat, Aug 18 2007, 11:58 pm

TammyTammy wrote:

amother wrote:

TammyTammy wrote:

Do you think that it's necessary to do that? shock

The Rebbe RaShab was once visited by the free-thinking writer who was known by the pseudonym of "Achad Ha'Am". The impression Achad HaAm had of the Rebbe RaShab: "He is not like the other Admurim (of chassidus Polin) . The other Admurim ( according to his, ACH's perspective) don't know the world. He ( the Rebbe RaShab) is "yodea es haolam umechaven limrod bo". He knows the world, and rebels against it. ( a play on the words Chazal use to describe Amalek, who knows his Master (HKBH) and rebels against Him. Yodea es Ribbono, umechaven limrod bo).

Quote:

The Rebbe RaShab's assessment of Achad HaAm: If he would see Kriyas Yam Suf with his own eyes, he wouldn't believe it.

When someone is excited about a Mofes - miracle- from a tzaddik, what is the result? , more striving to emulate the ways of the tzaddik and his teachings, more Yiras hashem.

and when OTOH someone comes along and tries to put a damper on it, and cool them off of this excitement and enthusiasm, by injecting a note of skepticism -- that's the "asher Korcha baderech" of Amalek. Amalek is b'gematria "SAFEK", Doubt. And that's the big offense that Amalek does that's so terrible that we are commanded to wipe out Amalek.

If you read through the Book of Shoftim, we learn about the tzaros that Bnei Yisrael had from the various nations of Canaan of which pockets remained even after having been vanquished upon entering the Land, as well as the Plishtim and Ammonim etc.

Yet, who did G-d command us to wipe out all traces of? Amalek, who after two brief skirmishes with Bnei Yisraeil in the Midbar, enroute to Eretz Yisrael, never did anything else afterward, and lived side by side peacefully with them.

Yet, we must eradicate all traces of Amalek, because the "Asher Korcha" and the skepticism that it represents is the biggest threat to Yiddishkeit. Without destroying Amalek, the Throne and the Name are not complete.

Last edited by TzenaRena on Sun, Aug 19 2007, 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, Aug 19 2007, 5:14 am

Quote:

I had a similar experience...5 years of childlessness. Then my husband took a job in another city. I had to wait for two months to follow him. Rosh Hashana fell out in the middle of this two month period, so I flew to where my husband was to be with him for yom tov. I had such incredibly intense davening - some of the most intense of my life. Motzei yom tov was mikva night. I really felt terribly ill, but since I was supposed to leave the next day I pushed myself and went ahead. (Turns out that I had food poisoning and ended up being quite sick for several days and didn't go anywhere!). Anyhow, from that night we had our first child, a boy, on gimmel Sivan. There's never been any doubt in my mind whatsoever that it was a complete nes - a gift straight from Hashem. It has flavored, in a way, my whole relationship with this child, who was by far the most difficult personality of all the children. (BAH, we were blessed several times after his birth). No matter how difficult he was or what problems he faced, the miracle of how he got to us has always given me strength to know that if Hashem entrusted him to us, then He's going to enable us to handle the challenges this child brings as well. BH, now he's almost bar mitzvah, and he's grown up into this sweet, generous natured, bright young man, who makes us very proud indeed.

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