Ds has a girlfriend

amother

Navy

Sat, Jun 25 2016, 7:50 pm

amother wrote:

I was raised MO, OOT, in the 80's and early 90's. We viewed being shomer negiah as something frummies did, like a chumash or something they mistakenly thought was required. By "we", I mean both the kids and the parents. My parents were pretty shocked when I went shomer, because they viewed it as a significant step to the right. Which it tended to be.

We did boyfriends and girlfriends. A decent number of couples went shomer midway and stayed together afterwards, with lots of precautions (and mixed results).

This was my experience as well. I grew up in NY, left wing MO (still consider myself MO, but very right wing now). I'm probably a bit younger than you though, I graduated HS in 05. I will add, we all viewed actual zex as a red line. Sure, a few went all the way, but those who did either didn't care about anything or lost control and slipped up (as hormonal teens of all backgrounds sometimes do). Nobody thought it was allowed though, as opposed to just touching which we viewed as a geder to prevent zex and not as a problem in and of itself.
Dh and I started going out as teens and weren't shomer at first, but became so as seniors. We got engaged during the year in Israel and married when we got back. I will say, Dh came from a more RW background and his parents were very upset that he had a girlfriend. They weren't so nice at the beginning of our marriage either because they were skeptical that it would last. They're nicer now that they've been proven wrong, but our relationship with them probably won't ever fully recover.

amother

Lawngreen

Sat, Jun 25 2016, 9:08 pm

amother wrote:

We all viewed actual zex as a red line. Sure, a few went all the way, but those who did either didn't care about anything or lost control and slipped up (as hormonal teens of all backgrounds sometimes do). Nobody thought it was allowed though.

Same here.

Sorry about the complicated relationship with your in laws. OP, I hope amother's post has shown you that some of these relationships end extremely well. I know many stories like hers, including community leaders and rabbanim in a variety of streams of orthodoxy. What seems to have mattered most were positive role models who were enthusiastic about yiddishkeit but not pressuring.

amother

Lime

Sat, Jun 25 2016, 10:55 pm

amother wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, the spectrum in yiddishkeit for my family is very wide and with me being only the mother who can't be the father too and my role as a role model in yiddishkeit and avodas Hashem is limited. Their experience in yiddishkeit unfortunately has had quite some knocks.... and what matters now is to give the most positive vibes about yiddishkeit possible. And it is therefore I asked in the forum ..... before telling him anything in case there is no need necessity ti do so.

And yes im enlightend so much more on this now as I only know mainly the ins and outs on my end of the spectrum.

Thanks to you all!!

causemommysaid

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 5:01 am

To all those who are saying they thought it was a geder, ask any MO rabbi if touching intimately is allowed according to MO halacha. I am positive you will get the answer no. I am sure there are leniencies regarding giving Aunt Marge a hug when you see her but not for men and women to get physical and stop before sx.

People pick and choose what they want to keep in every group.

amother

Navy

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 5:27 am

causemommysaid wrote:

You're missing the point- it's not about what the halacha actually is. It's what people in a group think it is and this particular subset doesn't generally ask rabbis unless they think they don't know. It's not "picking and choosing" either, it's based on logic (yes, I'm aware that isn't how halacha works, I'm explaining the thought process)- so according to logic, most people don't start having zex because they held hands, therefore its OK to do so. And not all MO rabbis will say you need to be shomer either. Some hold only zexual touching is problematic, but something that's not basically f0replay is fine. I don't agree with that interpretation, but a small amount of rabbis do hold that way.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 5:42 am

causemommysaid wrote:

While you are right, I don't think it's always true for the kids, and even many adults. In my school, we were not taught much halachah, and definitely not about this. I think it was the whole "they're going to do it anyway" idea, combined with a parent body who would/did tell the kids, "Don't worry about that- it's not how we do things". We weren't taught hilchos tznius, anything about kol isha, etc. When the school tried to add to the dress code that slits in skirts had to stay below the knee, the parents mutineed along with the students.

Even when one of my teachers brought me and a bunch of my friends who had become shomer to talk to a class of younger girls about it, we were told to focus on the softer reasons of why it was good for us. We couldn't say, "You can't because it's not allowed and this is where it says that."

I don't know if that's changed, but it's only looking back that I realize that I had no idea how the rabbanim in my school held on halachah.