Flatbush fire last night

Mevater

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 1:16 am

ra_mom wrote:

What do you guys say to pre-filled oil cups that would only last 1 hour? Mehudar enough? I would purchase an item like that. I wonder if ner mitzvah would agree to make something like that if they thought they had a big enough market of consumers.

Lots of companies make the pre filled cups that last 1 1/2 hours.

Mevater

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 1:24 am

ra_mom wrote:

Ours lasted 2 hours.

The length of time the lights burn isnt important. The main thing is never to go to sleep, or be on a different floor, even awake, with burning flames. If youre up and around on the same floor, you usually know if something is wrong pretty quickly from the smell or alarms.

ra_mom

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 1:28 am

Mevater wrote:

Do you know how tired I was sitting near the menorah for 2 hours? I felt myself getting up twice without thinking to get into bed before reminding myself that I HAD to stay awake in that room.
The length of time the lights burn makes a huge difference in how much strength you have for fire safety.

Mevater

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 1:31 am

ra_mom wrote:

Im not a Posek, but if theres any danger of falling asleep, arent you allowed to put the fire out, once theyve burned for 1/2 hour?

ra_mom

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 1:33 am

Mevater wrote:

Im not a Posek, but if theres any danger of falling asleep, arent you allowed to put the fire out, once theyve burned for 1/2 hour?

Dh was sleeping and I didn't know the proper way to distinguish so many flames, so close together, safely. When he got up he told me blowing them out would have been fine.
I would still prefer something that burns for 1 hour rather than distinguishing.

Mevater

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 1:39 am

ra_mom wrote:

Ive done it. Its no harder than blowing out candles on a birthday cake.

Raisin

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 5:13 am

the menora needs to burn for half an hour. On friday night it needs to burn for half an hour after nightfall, so about 1.5 hours. So I guess thats why the pre-filled cups last that long. If you are using glass cups just put less oil in.

To put out a flame place something heavy on top.

Chanukah is a derabannan. Taking care of your safety is more important. Extinguish candles before going out or going to sleep. My husband won't go to sleep on shabbos until all the candles are out.

observer

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 8:51 am

ra_mom wrote:

Do you mean extinguish? Wink

gamanit

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 9:22 am

Mevater wrote:

Ive done it. Its no harder than blowing out candles on a birthday cake.

I learnt that you shouldn't blow out candles; you should rather snuff them out or wave your hand to extinguish them. I find snuffing them out is usually the easiest. It takes a second.

Amarante

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 9:54 am

The sell snuffers. They were widely used in the days before electrical lighting to safely snuff out candles. They look like small bell shaped cups with a handle.

observer

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 10:15 am

Amarante wrote:

I would think a menorah constructed to still be burning at 2:30 A.M. is a fire hazard.

Why? It depends on how much oil you put in. If you put in a lot of oil it will burn a long time. it has nothing to do with the construction of the menorah.

[of course I firmly believe in someone being awake as long as the flames are burning]

Amarante

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 10:21 am

observer wrote:

It creates a situation in which most people will fill the oil and assume it is safe because otherwise why would the cups be large enough for that amount of oil.

The point is having a menorah that has cups large enough to fill with enough oil so that it is burning at 2:30 A.M. is inherently unsafe because the end users will generally NOT be awake to make sure that nothing has happened.

The cause of the fire was the glass cups holding the oil could not withstand the heat over the length they were in use so one or more cracked and the flaming oil spilled out igniting everything quickly.

That to me makes it inherently unsafe. Many products are deliberately NOT sold because using them creates an inherent risk.

Mevater

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 10:22 am

Amarante wrote:

I would think a menorah constructed to still be burning at 2:30 A.M. is a fire hazard.

I think a brain that doesnt comprehend the danger of sleeping with unattended fire is a hazard, period. V'nishmartem Meod L'nafshoseichem.

Sometimes older kids who dont fully understand the danger, add oil and light again after parents go to sleep, and then the kids endanger everyone by going to sleep with burning flames.

cozyblanket

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 10:26 am

ra_mom wrote:

It seems the flames came from near the menorah and the "fire marshals suspect the glasses from the may have cracked under extended heat exposure, spilling oil and spreading flames, a Fire Department official said.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/201......com/

Crying

I am asking litoeles...

I'm trying to understand this. Were the flames extinguished and it still caused a fire from the hot glass? Is that possible? Or were the flames still burning at 2am?

I am asking bc if it was the former, then wouldn't there still be a safety problem even if we extinguish the flames before going to bed etc? I am applying this to safety in my own home and trying to learn.

One more question, we go upstairs to put the kids to bed and then go back down. So the menorah are alone on the first floor during that time. What do we do about this? It is hard for one parent to do the whole bedtime alone kah.

Thank you for your help.