Did you raise your cleaning lady?

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 6:47 pm

amother wrote:

I'm pretty stunned by this attitude.
Assuming that a housekeeper is in this country illegally (most are where I live) and not reporting income (again, the norm where I live) why on earth should any demand be placed on the employer?
This is absurdity. I'm normally a very law-abiding citizen but no way I'd be bullied into such a situation.
In any case, it's not going to work out as intended. All of the subpar housekeepers (and there are quite a lot of them out there) are not going to end up with a "living wage". They are going to end up unemployed with no wage. The market is what the market is and trying to outsmart it never goes well.

Its the law. That's why.

unexpected

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 7:27 pm

cnc wrote:

I wonder if unexpected is mixing up working illegally(off the books) and being an illegal immigrant.
Her cleaning help may be a legal citizen that is working illegally.

I'm actually not mixing up anything. My cleaning lady is here for about 16 years. Her daughter was educated here. She had a 2 year visa/green card which she overstayed. She considered going back to Guan and then reapplying to come back but changed her mind because it was too much of a hassle. She definitely has a benefit card. I've seen it. I have also hired direct care workers over the years from Haiti and Jamaica. Those girls were here legally but went back every so often and started again. They worked on the books, just enough to qualify for programs and went to school to get an education and hopefully move on. (One girl from Haiti just sent me a wedding invitation!). They were very careful not to go one penny over the amount they were allowed to make. Raising the minimum does not work well for them either.

33055

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 7:30 pm

amother wrote:

Its the law. That's why.

Out of all the laws that are consistently broken that were mentioned on this thread already, why only are you singling out that law to be enforced?

It is the law where I live that you can't cram as many people as traffic bears into a house. I posit that the safety of our firemen should be the top priority and that is way more important.

Or what about the economic well being of of black and other disenfranchised workers? Shouldn't the illegals be sent home? Wages would rise without them here to supress the market?

Since the illegals are not paying income tax, they probably get a similar effective rate.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 7:41 pm

Squishy wrote:

I was responding to a specific question.

the question - "why on earth should any demand be placed on the employer"? - the answer is ' its the law".

Maybe that was a poor answer. Why does government put laws on employers to pay minimum wage? That's a longer answer...(and really not relevant) but disagreeing with the concept of a minimum wage applicable to all workers, should not be justification for not paying it. That's not the way the US works.

If someone were to come out an say 'I know there is a minimum wage, I know it applies to the cleaning lady that I employ - but screw it -I'm breaking the law - the system is insane' - Great. But attempting to justify it to the point of saying "its not applicable because of too much labor" or "too much fraud" or "too much unfair" is intellectually dishonest... and the more I read it here - the more I think people really believe that they are above the law. Break the law - fine - but own up to it.

amother

Brown

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 7:52 pm

amother wrote:

Technically, a routine cleaning woman is an independent contractor, not an "employee."

If she was an employee, you'd have to withhold from her "paycheck," so the question would be, why do one thing right (follow minimum wage law) and not another (withhold law).

If someone had a cleaning lady every day they would probably be considered an employee. The once a week cleaning lady can probably be considered an independent contractor

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 7:56 pm

amother wrote:

separate set of laws. the independent contractor would be an employee under labor law.... and the number of hours she works, and the flexibility in her hours would determine if she was subject to withholding taxes

33055

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:09 pm

amother wrote:

It is wrong to single out one law to be obeyed and then to be self righteous about it.

The fact the illegals are here fraudulently and break our laws with impunity endangering municipal workers' lives seems not to matter to your crusade. I didn't mention before their underground economy. They aren't paying minimum wages either. Nor are they paying income taxes.

You are the one intellectually dishonest not presenting both sides of the issues. I would gladly love to see the entire mess in Spring Valley disappear. Imagine Jews and other middle class students could attend public schools without gangs and the violence currently associated with our schools.

Many of the illegals have drinking problems, are quick with the violence, and are all around bad actors.

Frankly, I would be better off if they cleaned out the sanctuary city and caused a labor shortage and the labor rate doubled. I wouldn't have to pay the insane tax rates to support a bunch of people who don't belong here in the first place.

I would dearly love to see Americans get paid.

simcha2

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:12 pm

unexpected wrote:

People from Guam are American citizens.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:18 pm

Amarante wrote:

It's very much the norm and is based on bedrooms and baths especially if one is either using a service or has a long term relationship with the cleaning woman.

It makes much more sense since the worker has incentive to be as productive as possible and the employer just has to judge whether they are satisfied with the job done - and not have to wonder whether the employee is working as quickly as they would like - or listening to music or talking on the phone or eating or whatever.

Do the job for a price that is considered to be fair by both sides and why worry about anything else.

I guess that would only work if all the cleaning lady does is bathrooms, mopping, vacuuming...

If she’s doing laundry, ironing, cooking, childcare, etc... which many cleaning women do, it’s impossible to pay like that.

My cleaning lady, comes a couple times a week, on those days she does whatever I need her to do. If I happen to leave her the baby, then she is taking care of him too, so everything will take longer. That’s why such a system would never work. I just pay her by the hour.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:19 pm

Squishy wrote:

what self righteous? at what point in any of this conversation did I say anything about me abiding by this law?

what issues? what debate? what two sides?

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:29 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

That’s why such a system would never work.... for you.

keym

Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:34 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

[quote]

Agreed. I dont have very much cleaning help right now. Had to cut down to only 2 hours a week. So besides my bathrooms, each week I give her a different job from my list. I prefer to pay per hour because I am not paying to get my whole house cleaned at once.