Poor Esther | Imamother

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim

Poor Esther

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amother

Aqua

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 10:24 pm

cnc wrote:

(They censor the story in our BY schools. )

You hear it twice every year. How is it censored?

cnc

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 10:26 pm

amother wrote:

You hear it twice every year. How is it censored?

I don’t hear it with meforshim.

amother

Aqua

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 10:28 pm

cnc wrote:

I don’t hear it with meforshim.

But you don't need meforshim to understand that Esther is stuck for life with Achashverosh.

cnc

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 10:31 pm

amother wrote:

But you don't need meforshim to understand that Esther is stuck for life with Achashverosh.

That aspect is pretty obvious to anyone including elementary aged children and is not left out when teaching the Purim story. I’m referring to specific details that are not obvious when reading the Megillah.

There was a very informative thread on here either last year or the year before. Does anyone know what I’m referring to ?

Mommyg8

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 10:38 pm

cnc wrote:

If you're talking about the fact that she went willingly to achashveirosh when mordechai asked her to - yes, we did learn this in high school. Chassidish type high school.

crust

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 10:44 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Here's a question.

Would you marry a Nazi and give up your future in this world in order to prevent the Holocaust and save 6 million Jews?

Fascinating. Thanks for putting this in perspective.

yogabird

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 10:47 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Here's a question.

Would you marry a Nazi and give up your future in this world in order to prevent the Holocaust and save 6 million Jews?

And you have no idea at the time that you marry him that you're going to be saving all those jews...

crust

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 11:19 pm

cnc wrote:

There was a very informative thread on here either last year or the year before. Does anyone know what I’m referring to ?

I'd love to see it. My kids keep asking me questions that I don't know how to answer.

Till now I only listened to shiurim about it but Maybe I should start learning it in depth.

crust

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 11:35 pm

leah233 wrote:

Yes.

Or at least I would like to think so.

To be honest, I don't know if I'm that selfless. To live for a full day with a vicious unpredictable Nazi? I would be petrified!!
Think about a week? A full month? A year?
Maybe if I would completely understand why I'm doing what I'm doing and that I'm not just a mabid atzmo l'daas.

But even then, to be trapped for life?!! I honestly don't know if I'd survive.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Mar 01 2018, 11:38 pm

crust wrote:

I'd love to see it. My kids keep asking me questions that I don't know how to answer.

Till now I only listened to shiurim about it but Maybe I should start learning it in depth.

Not sure if this is appropriate for kids because it's been years since I read it, but the Meam Loez on Esther goes through fascinating historical context and mefarshim.

seeker

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 12:07 am

OP, pretty much every shiur I listened to about Purim/Megillah focuses on this at least partially. Yes, part of the heroism is in the tragedy.

As for choosing to marry a Nazi with or without knowing etc... she didn't get to choose. At least nothing that I learned mentioned this. She was coerced or more likely forced to do so. That's a big part of the turnaround story - it seemed like this total disaster that a fine Jewish girl was taken to the palace to be with this awful king, but then it ended up leading to saving everyone. The time that Mordechai told her to go to the king willingly was after they were already married for quite a number of years. That was her major sacrifice, that one moment when she chose to go to the king when she hadn't been called and was liable to be killed.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 12:45 am

octopus wrote:

Achashveirosh was such a pig, he took all the single, pretty girls in all the 127 lands. There must have been a shortage of jewish girls to marry. So this was not only Esther's tragedy, this was a tragedy for Jewish women. And I think this is why women are mechuyav in the mitzvos of the day.

This may have been the first shidduch crisis.

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 12:57 am

cozyblanket wrote:

I thought about it more.

It was clearly her tafkid. It was a hard one, no doubt. But when a neshama accomplishes its tafkid, it is a wonderful thing. But it surely was a very big nisayon for her.

Yes, it bothers me immensely. Even though it was her tafkid it was a very difficult life. We too have a tafkid. This doesn't make it any easier. It's just that the thought of oilem habaa that makes it worthwhile to go through the difficulty in life. It's still hard, sad, sometimes unfathomable and seemingly unfair.

DrMom

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:06 am

octopus wrote:

I often wondered what a huge demographic ripple effect this must have caused, and no just for Jews: that means that there were virtually no marriageable women across 127 nations.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:06 am

tf wrote:

You say that Olem haba is what makes it worthwhile to go through life? How is that so? What about it is so worthwhile?

I live in this world, and enjoy what I know. Am I missing out on something here?

seeker

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:10 am

DrMom wrote:

I often wondered what a huge demographic ripple effect this must have caused, and no just for Jews: that means that there were virtually no marriageable women across 127 nations.

Maybe it's blasphemous of me to take this liberty, but I imagine it might have been somewhat of an exaggeration to say that he collected literally every single girl in the empire. Maybe every single girl had to show up for screening and then there was some pre-selection process? I don't know but it doesn't seem feasible to take it literally.

seeker

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:10 am

amother wrote:

Maybe consider starting a spinoff about this, I can't see how this is going to add to the discussion of the Purim story.

Mevater

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:19 am

How much of a choice did Esther have in the matter

momnaturally

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:21 am

We really have no comprehension of the madreiga she was on. I can't imagine a holy woman like her was depressed the rest of her life. She must have been able to come to terms with what Hashem wants her to do and she was able to do it bisimcha and have a happy fulfilling life. We can't fathom how she could have done that but I am convinced that's what occured.
I take a lesson from Esther that my challenges in life are designed for me too and Hashem only gave me what I can handle and be in a state of happiness. If Esther was able to live happily like that I try to be able to live happily with my life challenges.

seeker

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 2:17 am

Mevater wrote:

How much of a choice did Esther have in the matter

In which matter?

From my understanding, she did not have a choice about going to the harem and then to Achashveirosh.
She did make choices in matters such as:
- Did not ask for special treatments when preparing to go to king (vanity, immodesty, etc)
- Arranged her maidservants to remind her what day would be Shabbos
- Followed the advice of Mordechai, the tzaddik of the generation on several (noted) occasions, including when it seemed like a very bad idea (namely going to the king un-summoned)
- Initiated a massive movement of prayer and teshuva (fasting)

Basically her choice was to teach us by example that even when you think you have no choices in life because you aren't in control of your circumstances - which really no one is but some are able to keep up the illusion - but even when things are totally out of your control and quite disastrous, you still have choices of how you conduct yourself within that setting. Crummy circumstances are not a reason to let go of your faith or your internal identity. That was Esther's choice.

Esther lived with a truly evil person for most of her life and yet she went down in history not only as the heroine of the Purim "fairytale-like" story, but as a prophetess. A prophet or prophetess has to be a person on an extremely high level in spirituality, and we also learn that prophecy only comes in a state of happiness/peace of mind. That she could be a prophetess in such a life filled with adversity, sets a very encouraging example that we can aspire to. We may not become prophetesses, but we can try for integrity wherever life takes us.

Can you tell I love Purim? I love everything about Purim so much. I just wish it didn't sneak in and out so fast.

*ETA: OK I don't love the nosh and mess that are all over my house now, and I did exceed my sensory threshold a couple of times. But those were just the shtick, not the real Purim. Point holds - I love Purim even if I don't love all the things people do on Purim.

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