 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Children's Health
Chayalle
|
 Tue, Mar 13 2018, 9:42 am
| amother wrote: | Everywhere there are people that are ok with this type of thing. But to say it's common in.... I don't think so at all. They (the family) do it. Finished.
I just love how people blame their society for the things they're doing.
I was once visiting someone in Israel and there where some other people there (I never met). They where talking about giving ugly names to kids after a grandparent. Some said they would cuz that's how the grandparent was named and that's how it works. Others said they would never give an ugly name and that it's mean to the kid. Others said they would add another nice name to it. Anyway, so one American lady started saying how you have to name after a grandparent, no matter how they where named and she never heard of "not liking a name, it's not an excuse"
She said: "in America everybody names after their grandparents. There they know no chochmes! I hv friends that gave weird and ugly names to their kids cuz that's how the grandparent was named. In America everybody does it. And they are right. That's how it should be". Everyone believed her. Later I talked with my mil about it and she said "the Americans know of no chochmes they give the name they have to give and finished". I had a good laugh. People just believe everything. She (American lady) thought that was the right thing to do and her friend thought so too, doesn't mean that'show it's done in America!!!!  |
Totally OT but my mother A"H had two uncommon names. So far only my Israeli SIL's have named after her. My American niece did not (which is fine, it's her decision). So that lady was definitely not correct!
| |
|
| Back to top |
 0
 2
|
|
amother
Scarlet
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 9:59 am
| amother wrote: | Everywhere there are people that are ok with this type of thing. But to say it's common in.... I don't think so at all. They (the family) do it. Finished.
I just love how people blame their society for the things they're doing.
I was once visiting someone in Israel and there where some other people there (I never met). They where talking about giving ugly names to kids after a grandparent. Some said they would cuz that's how the grandparent was named and that's how it works. Others said they would never give an ugly name and that it's mean to the kid. Others said they would add another nice name to it. Anyway, so one American lady started saying how you have to name after a grandparent, no matter how they where named and she never heard of "not liking a name, it's not an excuse"
She said: "in America everybody names after their grandparents. There they know no chochmes! I hv friends that gave weird and ugly names to their kids cuz that's how the grandparent was named. In America everybody does it. And they are right. That's how it should be". Everyone believed her. Later I talked with my mil about it and she said "the Americans know of no chochmes they give the name they have to give and finished". I had a good laugh. People just believe everything. She (American lady) thought that was the right thing to do and her friend thought so too, doesn't mean that'show it's done in America!!!! |
My nieces grandmother left tzavua (and was very vocal about it when she lived) that Noone name after her.
She had an extremely uncommon name. A boys name turned female with a twist and it ended up in ugly hard to pronounce and long name.
She was forever taunted about her name and she hated it. She did not want her grandkids to have that name.
What do you know, niece gave her kid that name. Added another name. But still. Whatever. I guess it her kid. And I hope it never comes back to bite her.
I only gave my kids names after grandparents that had good middos. I know its not a "done thing" in my circles but I'll go as far back as I can as long as I feel that they were good ppl (unfortunately not all my grandparents were. And the once named after some of our grandparents are very difficult personality children. I hope they grow out of it)
Now about cousins marring cousins.....
It IS more a done thing in chassidish circles.
Any satmar ppl here? The jacobowitzes? Lefkowitzes? Or like my nephew calls it "lefkabovitch" lol. How about the Schwartz/scher family?
My Sil's (not rebbish) parents are first cousins.
My sister is also my 2nd and 3rd cousin from our husbands sides. But twice! And her mil is her Fils cousin. Family names are repeated and it's so confusing from which side your named after cuz it's all one side! Lol. Bh no genetic illnesses all hearthy ppl.
It is not an everyday accurance. But it does happen more than you'd think.
If such a shidduch happens everyone is talking about it because even if it's more common in our circles it still is rare.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
|
amother
Rose
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 9:59 am
| happyone wrote: | | dor yesharim is very limited in what they test. They should go through Jscreen or counsyl if they were to proceed. It's way more comprehensive . |
Dor Yeshorim tests for 2 panels lately.
Does anyone know if Jscreen or counsyl test for even more than the second panel Dor Yeshorim tests for?
I have to know. Thanks.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
|
amother
Fuchsia
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:05 am
| Chayalle wrote: | | Totally OT but my mother A"H had two uncommon names. So far only my Israeli SIL's have named after her. My American niece did not (which is fine, it's her decision). So that lady was definitely not correct! |
I didn't believe her a second. It's a way for people to defend themself. When they say everyone does it (in their country, community, family...), it makes it normal for them.
I remembered it cuz of the post that says in belz it's normal to marry a cousin (second or whatever). I don't think it's true. I'm belz and I don't know anyone close to me that did it. While I do hv a cousin in chabad that got married to her first cousin. People do such things everywhere and nowhere. It has nothing to do with where you belong
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
mother4
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:23 am
I read up books in the past on genetics, and it is clearly stated that in reproduction, the greater the diversity of chromosomes, the better chance for a healthy offspring. In the same vein, if there are similar or duplicate proteins in the genes, chances for unhealthy tendencies are greater. Human beings are ideally created from the variety (opposites) of combinations.
Coincidentally, I know 2 ppl that married their uncle, and have one child not well. I dont know if its related..just an observation.
My parents are from the most diverse backgrounds, one sefardi, one chassidish. From opposite ends of the world...7 kids. Good looking. Very strong BH, never went to Drs. Bli ayin hara...not trying to boast...
Cant say my parents got along so well though:)
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
3
|
|
amother
Smokey
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:53 am
| amother wrote: | Dor Yeshorim tests for 2 panels lately.
Does anyone know if Jscreen or counsyl test for even more than the second panel Dor Yeshorim tests for?
I have to know. Thanks. |
Counsyl/Genescreen tests for 100+ conditions. Much more than Dor Yesharim and more than the standard Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jewish panels.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
|
amother
Amber
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 11:03 am
| amother wrote: | | This is true. My husband is Belz and his parents are first cousins, as are one set of grandparents. My kids are not marrying anyone related. Just to be perfectly clear. |
How can you be so sure!?
I love the way we all think shidduchim is in our hands.
I happen to have 2 first cousins that married, and their oldest child has a very rare genetic disease that hasn't been identified.
Its not unheard of in a marraige where the couple isn't related.
Nothing is random. Everything is bashert. From the shidduch to the unfortunate test this wonderful couple was given.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
4
|
|
amother
Blonde
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 12:35 pm
OP here.
Thank you all for your responses. The shidduch has already happened, the couple is Chassidish and I'm sure they have checked with Dor Yeshurim which is standard for Chassidish shidduchim. But I highly doubt that's comprehensive enough for detecting recessive genetic diseases.
I'm very upset about this risk for potential illnesses, but my dh is not convinced and I'm trying to prove to him that it is problematic. (This is a close family member)
Thank you for the information
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
1
|
|
amother
Amber
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 12:38 pm
|
What are you trying to achieve at this point if the Shidduch happened already?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
14
|
happyone
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 1:03 pm
| amother wrote: | OP here.
Thank you all for your responses. The shidduch has already happened, the couple is Chassidish and I'm sure they have checked with Dor Yeshurim which is standard for Chassidish shidduchim. But I highly doubt that's comprehensive enough for detecting recessive genetic diseases.
I'm very upset about this risk for potential illnesses, but my dh is not convinced and I'm trying to prove to him that it is problematic. (This is a close family member)
Thank you for the information |
What's done is done. I would run the Jscreen panel regardless. There are options for prenatal testing should they both prove to be carriers.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
11
|
happyone
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 1:05 pm
| happyone wrote: | | What's done is done. I would run the Jscreen panel regardless. There are options for prenatal testing should they both prove to be carriers. |
Or better yet doesn't seem like they are really asking you for an opinion in the matter.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
9
|
keym
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 1:34 pm
I believe ive said this before but it bears repeatibg. Anecdotal data can be very compelling.
Read up on the Spanish Hapsburg Monarchy culminating with King Carlos- late 1600s.
Several hundred years of inbreeding and sharing too many grandparents, causing mild physical or mental impairments. But then continuous inbreeding resulted in King Carlos. Severely physically deformed, mentally impaired, infertile, and had (I believe) only 3 great grandparent- normal is 8, and maybe 7 great great grandparents- normal is 16.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
7
|
keym
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 1:37 pm
And to add to that. The crucial part is that it was not just a one time thing but many many generations.
So its not enough to say I married my cousin and our kids are fine. But continuously marrying in the family can cause little things that spiral into big things 2, 3, 4 generations down the line.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
5
|
southernbubby
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 2:56 pm
|
Heart defects are more common in the children of first cousins.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
southernbubby
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 2:57 pm
| keym wrote: | And to add to that. The crucial part is that it was not just a one time thing but many many generations.
So its not enough to say I married my cousin and our kids are fine. But continuously marrying in the family can cause little things that spiral into big things 2, 3, 4 generations down the line. |
My maternal grandparents are first cousins and my sister and I are missing clotting factor 11, but both my mother and father were carriers and neither had the disorder.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
|
amother
Blonde
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 2:59 pm
| amother wrote: | | What are you trying to achieve at this point if the Shidduch happened already? |
To be more knowledgeable about the topic for when the discussion inevitably comes up.
Also my dh wanted numbers, and I want him to understand why I am talking about this so passionately.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
FranticFrummie
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 3:23 pm
Slightly OT, but I read that in Ethiopian communites, where the gene pool was very small and concentrated, they kept meticulous records going back hundreds of years.
Not only were they able to keep track of who was a Cohen, but it was forbidden to marry within 4 generations of your family. I don't know how much they knew about genetics back there, but they certainly had some idea that close marriages were a very bad idea.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
6
|
|
amother
Orchid
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 3:25 pm
| amother wrote: | My nieces grandmother left tzavua (and was very vocal about it when she lived) that Noone name after her.
She had an extremely uncommon name. A boys name turned female with a twist and it ended up in ugly hard to pronounce and long name.
She was forever taunted about her name and she hated it. She did not want her grandkids to have that name.
What do you know, niece gave her kid that name. Added another name. But still. Whatever. I guess it her kid. And I hope it never comes back to bite her.
I only gave my kids names after grandparents that had good middos. I know its not a "done thing" in my circles but I'll go as far back as I can as long as I feel that they were good ppl (unfortunately not all my grandparents were. And the once named after some of our grandparents are very difficult personality children. I hope they grow out of it)
Now about cousins marring cousins.....
It IS more a done thing in chassidish circles.
Any satmar ppl here? The jacobowitzes? Lefkowitzes? Or like my nephew calls it "lefkabovitch" lol. How about the Schwartz/scher family?
My Sil's (not rebbish) parents are first cousins.
My sister is also my 2nd and 3rd cousin from our husbands sides. But twice! And her mil is her Fils cousin. Family names are repeated and it's so confusing from which side your named after cuz it's all one side! Lol. Bh no genetic illnesses all hearthy ppl.
It is not an everyday accurance. But it does happen more than you'd think.
If such a shidduch happens everyone is talking about it because even if it's more common in our circles it still is rare. |
Off topic but this is for a different reason.
Last edited by amother on Tue, Sep 24 2019, 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
|
amother
Pink
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 5:40 pm
Even if the shidduch is made and they've done dor yesharim, please suggest they do JScreen. Worst case scenario they ignore you (same is if you say nothing), but best case is you save them and their children and future gneenrations from tremendous heartache.
My dd has a genetic disorder, dor yesharim doesn't even begin to cover the diseases out there, even in people who aren't cousins 3 times over. From someone who knows, please suggest they do additional testing through JScreen so that if needed they can do PGD (IVF to select embryos without a given genetic disorder).
| |
|
| Back to top |
3
1
|
|
amother
Dodgerblue
|
Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:44 pm
| Cookie Monster wrote: | | Off topic but this is for a different reason. |
And what reason is that?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
