What do you think? noise shabbos backyard neighborhood kids?

amother

Slategray

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:13 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think she would have this issue if it would only be her neighbor's kids running around outside in the backyard. The OP specifically mentioned that the backyard has suddenly become the place where other neighbors congregate with their kids. If this is a residential area, then turning a home into a park-like atmosphere on a weekly basis on Shabbos afternoon is unfair to neighbors. Perhaps they can agree to compromise and accommodate both. They can set a time for when other neighbors can come to play, this way there will be time for both naptime and playtime.

OP here, this is the issue. It's not just her kids, it's a bunch of neighborhood kids and they're out from the time the meal is over for about 3 hours, and some of them are screaming, and playing loudly. If it's just her kids, there wouldn't be so much noise.

amother

Green

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:13 pm

tweety1 wrote:

Ladies, keeping the kids inside till 4 or 5 is very doable. I do it every week. I never ever let my kids outside before 430 because other ppl wanna nap. I consider that selfish on the opposite end. Because I can't entertain my kids and keep them busy other ppl can't nap?! My kids are very close in age, live in a tiny Apt, once a week, for a few hours Im allowed to teach them to be considerate of others

Shabbat afternoon neighborhood fun in backyard of what seems to be a private residence?

I dunno - my Shabbat memories of childhood included swing-sets with friends and our parents shmoozing on the adjacent patio.

This is very different then building living.

amother

cornflower

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

I'm sorry, but the street is a public area & kids can play outside whenever they wish. Especially in their own backyard, they can surely do as they please & ivite over as many people as they'd like. All kids on our street are out all shabbos afternoon. No one ever had a problem with it.
We also have non Jews on our block, we can't exactly ask them not to play outside because we want quiet.

How do you know no one has a problem with it? Maybe they do but they realize you wouldn't work with them if they brought it up so they don't bother.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:19 pm

I have to ask, for all who mentioned they have young kids and it's unfair to keep them cooped up all day, would you be upset if your kids are napping or sleeping at 8 pm and neighbors kids were playing basketball outside and making a lot of noise for 2-3 hours even though they're allowed to and woke up your kids or babies?

Notsobusy

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:19 pm

amother wrote:

It's definitely worth having a conversation with your neighbors. As long as you're polite, make it about you, not about them, no blaming, just asking...... They may decide to be nice about it, just remember that they have zero responsibility to keep their kids quiet so you can nap.

Can you nap in a bedroom on the other side of the house?

For those who may think I'm unfeeling, I do get it. I lived next door to someone who put in a swingset and their backyard became the neighborhood playground. It wasn't fun, and there were many Shabbos afternoons when we were irritated by the noise, but we would never have asked the neighbors to keep their kids quiet for our sake. It just seems so selfish to me, why should our rest and relaxation come before theirs?

amother

Slategray

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:23 pm

Notsobusy wrote:

You don't know what's going on in her house with her kids stuck inside for hours. It's pretty selfish to expect someone else to accommodate your nap schedule. Why do some neighbors think they're entitled to a quiet Shabbos afternoon, but they don't think the other neighbor is entitled to do what she needs to do to survive the day?

What do you do during the winter if it's cold?

amother

Linen

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:28 pm

amother wrote:

Not exactly, people still need to be considerate of their neighbors, especially with frequent behaviors. Would you be ok if I decide to sit, snuggle and kiss outside with my husband on a constant basis in view of your kids? Would you be ok if I consistently blast music on an ear-splitting level? Would you be ok with me leaving piles of garbage on my property attracting all kinds of wildlife to the area? How about having a (non-Jewish neighbor) who sunbathes every
Saturday on her own property in full view of others? There are neighborhood laws precisely for this purpose, that people cannot do "as they wish" in their own backyards. Respect and consideration for others is required.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching our kids consideration for others from early on and not to do as they please "whenever they wish". Having her own kids run around in her own backyard at anytime is within reason. Turning her residential property into a weekly fun park for the neighborhood kids without consideration of her neighbors is quite inconsiderate. But she may not be aware of how it is affecting them. The OP should having a nice , respectful conversation with her and see what they can do about it.

amother

Linen

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:33 pm

Notsobusy wrote:

Isn't their behavior equally selfish - putting their needs before anyone else's? If it would solely be the neighbor's kids, then your point is valid. There is a key element here that makes a huge difference- it is that the property is becoming a neighborhood park during the rest and relaxation time of others.

Working out a compromise that both naptime and playtime can happen is not selfish. It accommodates both, teaches kids consideration and respect, and allows for harmony to reign. What's wrong with that?

amother

Linen

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:34 pm

Notsobusy wrote:

deleted - double post

heidi

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:34 pm

amother wrote:

It's interesting when you phrase it that way. I guess the question really is what is a reasonable behaviour. Using your examples, a couple kissing in front of my house would be reasonable, but having zex would cross the line. Kids playing basketball at 8pm would be reasonable. Playing basketball with loud music and lots of partyers at 1am would not be reasonable.
That said, I still think kids playing outside in the afternoon is within the realm of reasonable. No matter how many friends they have over.
OP should use earplugs and a loud fan. Masks most noise.

amother

Olive

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:39 pm

Yes it's annoying for you but I think you would be known as the crank if you asked that children not be allowed to play outdoors on a beautiful day because you wanted to nap.

I had a neighbor like that who objected to normal children's noise - not to be offensive but my father once told her that he knew a place where it would be quiet - the cemetery.

You can keep the windows shut - seal the curtains (thick curtains reduce noise) and run a white noise machine on a timer. Ear plugs would also help reduce any residual noise. In my opinion, the burden is on YOU to live with normal human behavior. If normal noise by neighbors annoys you that much, consider moving someplace where your neighbors are further away - or why don't you nap in a part of the house that is not facing the backyard. I often nap comfortably on my sofa Very Happy

I am all for being considerate of people including neighbors but I wouldn't dream of requesting that people refrain from normal activities. To me children playing during the day is completely different than loud noises after 10 PM or before 6 AM

amother

Linen

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:41 pm

heidi wrote:

Great point - reasonable behavior is dependent on the culture of the community. Being that Shabbos is a culture of both rest and play in our communities, why shouldn't both be equally considered? Why do the kids come before the adults, especially during the spring and summer season when the afternoon is long enough for both accommodations?

It is reasonable for kids to play outside in the afternoon and have friends over, and it is reasonable for adults to be able to grab an hour or two of naptime. Why can't the kids have their fun and friends start at 3:00 (or a time of your choosing) and allow the neighbors some shuteye? Is it reasonable to completely ignore your neighbors' needs and completely indulge your kids on the account of others?

(Ear plugs and a loud fan is not sufficient to drown out the ear splitting, high-decibel shrieks of a group of young kids. And what do you suggest we do with our infants, ear plugs for them too?)

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:42 pm

Excuse me amother cornflower, why are you assuming that I won't work with my neighbors?? That is so rude! Bh we have amazing neighors that are all open with each other's, if someone has an issue with something they definitely speak up. But this shabbos afternoon playing outside is a non issue because everyone's kids are out not only mine & as I mentioned before, we have non Jews on our block & we can't ask them not to be out in the afternoon. Nice of you to assume that my neighbors don't bother to speak up cause I won't work with them...... there's an entire block of kids playing outside!

amother

Green

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:46 pm

amother wrote:

Playset in backyard is a normative use of space. Boisterous fun outside in the afternoon is normal.

Honestly, if my neighbor told me to keep my guests quiet outside in the summer in the middle of the afternoon, I’d respond by inviting her over to join the conversation.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:47 pm

I have the same issue but I'm in an appt building. the neighbors kids play on their porch under my bedroom window all afternoon long-like ten kids and they make a racket. this is in israel. usually they are rules to be quiet between 2-4. but not so much anymore. all the other neighbors act in a respectable manner and have their kids indoors for at least part of the afternoon. we are all frum and most of us like to have a shabbos nap. sucks that one neighbor has to be so inconsiderate.

amother

Linen

Sun, Apr 29 2018, 1:49 pm

amother wrote:

The point here is, is that it's not just regular normal noise from a neighbor. It's a collection of normal noise from lots of neighbors together, and that makes the difference. The neighbor can have her kids run around all day long in her backyard, but inviting half the neighborhood over on a weekly basis for your own benefit, on the account of other, is selfish.

No one has mentioned not allowing her children to play outdoors. No one is asking her to refrain normal activities from her children. All the OP is asking is that she invite her kids' friends over at a later hour so she can have her Shabbos pleasure too.

Shabbos is a day of rest and the neighbor equally has a burden to try to maintain that in the her neighborhood.