Calling Hatzalah (Spinoff from "Trust your gut")

amother

Mint

Thu, May 10 2018, 4:20 pm

Amother octopus, if you render something an emergency, than call hatzola. For a rash from allergic reaction, there's nothing they can do. Unless it's a breathing related reaction. Give the kid Benadryl & go to the doctor. Hatzola members are not doctors. My child once woke up with a rash all over her body roll to bottom & getting worse & worse. By the time I got to the doctor, the rash was gone....
If you use your common sense when calling, you're ok!

octopus

Thu, May 10 2018, 4:31 pm

amother wrote:

First things first, I thank you and your husband for your service to the community. I understand the common sense- yes, we should all use it. I just have to disagree about the rash. I should have called hatzala for a rash that was progressively spreading over my child's body but instead opted to give benadryl and go to the ped. WRONG MOVE. My daughter who I didn't know had a specific allergy, did not have an epi pen. The dr decided that my limp noodle of a daughter didn't need a shot because she was still breathing, but he couldn't believe that she was! When I took her to the allergist, the allergist told me I should have called hatzala because she should have been in the hospital to be observed for 24 hours. Allergic reactions can return during that time and sometimes come back even worse. Putting out a message that a rash is a stupid reason to call hatzalah is wrong. Every scenario is different. The few wackos shouldn't ruin it for everyone else.

Ema of 5

Thu, May 10 2018, 6:24 pm

cookies6 wrote:

As a wife of a Hatzolah member, I take offense at OPs post. I have to say that your experience truly sounds like an exception to the rule. In my community the Hatzolah members do not treat people this way.

However, please bear in mind, like the above quoted amother says, there are always those that take advantage. A woman in labor, without any previous history of labor progressing at an unusually fast pace, does not need to call Hatzolah on Shabbos. She can call a cab to take her. And yet, there are women who DO call Hatzolah on shabbos, causing unnecessary chillul shabbos.

And some people are told rather to call hatzala if they don’t have a taxi card, so they don’t have to deal with money. I didn’t not have a history of quick labors, but I do have a history of other things (none of which make me high risk) so IF MY HUSBAND WERENT REACHABLE I would call hatzala for a transport, rather than a taxi.
Even if it turns out to be nothing, and hatzala wasn’t really needed, at the time of the call they assumed it was a necessity, so there is no chill shabbos involved.

Raisin

Thu, May 10 2018, 6:47 pm

re taxi - if you use an app like uber no need to deal with money. My last baby was born on shabbos and rav told us better to use an app then call a taxi.

This thread reminds me of the story about the rav who was sitting with his students when a woman came in and asked him a very stupid shaalah. The rav took it very seriously and answered her while the students were holding in their laughter. Afterwards he told the students: If I don't take her seriously now she won't come back and ask me a shaala when she really does have one and she could end up eating treif.

amother

Blonde

Thu, May 10 2018, 6:52 pm

I'm the OP of the other thread.

I was also very surprised by the comment about calling Hatzalah.

I am not a big caller. Aside from this episode, I called once when I got sliced on my eyeball and was alone with my children and obviously couldn't drive like that, and once when my son appeared to have broken his leg right before shabbos and needed an X ray.

According to halacha it's better to have them drive shabbos then to drive urself. We looked it up, it's not made up.

Obviously don't call for a bandaid but seriously, why volunteer for an amazing organization and then resent when people call for help? Some calls will be more severe then others. That's the way an ambulance service works.

I feel very justified for calling for a child whose intestines where literally folded in on themselves.

thunderstorm

Thu, May 10 2018, 6:57 pm

amother wrote:

Hatzalah members themselves don't resent it. Their wive's and family members do. They feel their DHs and fathers are being taken advantage of sometimes by certain individuals, that call them or knock on their door for non emergencies. Real emergencies DO need Hatzalah and never hesitate to call if you feel it's an emergency.

amother

Blush

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:09 pm

amother wrote:

Obviously don't call for a bandaid but seriously, why volunteer for an amazing organization and then resent when people call for help? Some calls will be more severe then others. That's the way an ambulance service works.

I feel very justified for calling for a child whose intestines where literally folded in on themselves.

I am not talking to people like you. I am talking to the people who call for a bandaid.

And no, the hatzalah volunteers do not "resent it when people call for help". They resent it when people call when they DONT need help. Thats where the resentment comes from.

When the hatzalah member runs out of a business meeting, runs out in middle of a workday, runs to a call in middle of shabbos afternoon learning with his son, and is greeted with PURE STUPIDITY of removing a tick or a splinter, then yes, they resent it. Yes they do. And why shouldnt they?

amother

Firebrick

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:09 pm

OP's experiences are unusual. I called Hatzolah numerous times, when I felt I had an emergency. When they arrived, the emergency was over (child stopped choking, seizure stopped etc.), and I was never made to feel bad. They're always sooo nice and understading. When I apologize, they were so reassuring and nice about it...

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:14 pm

amother wrote:

I am a total supporter of Hatzalah. It is an amazing organization, but there are some responders that have poor training or poor decision making skills.

I once ate something I am allergic to and went into anaphylaxis. (My throat was swelling shut.) Two hatzalah members showed up and one checked my breathing. He didnt hear wheezing so he wanted to leave. But my voice had change, as my voicebox was swelling; the other emt wanted to give Epipen. They got in a fight: one said no, one said yes. In the meantime, I stopped breathing completely. At that point #1 realized he'd been an idiot and they saved my life... but almost a bit late. I was purple with a 40% sat rate (oxygen.) I almost died. And life-saving meds were delayed because one member didn't believe me.

On the upside: I met the good hatzalah member a few months later and he said Hatzalah had a whole training because of me, that they should believe people who say they are having allergic reactions and that there can be delayed reactions, like mine was.

my sister's baby of a few months old had the same thing. It was the first time it happened and she didn't know what it was that made her whole little body swell. She called hatzole. After ten (yes 10!!!) minutes she called again (by then she was crying already) and the lady on the phone told her be calm it's probably nothing and asked her if she couldn't give her some cream for the swelling!? Her dh took the phone and screamed at the lady she should send a hatzole right away

amother

Oak

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:34 pm

Wife of someone in Hatzalah administration here:

I want to clarify that no one here is posting as a representative of Hatzolah. Hatzolah's official policy is that you can NEVER admonish someone for calling. They will NEVER say that calling is a bad idea. It is always better to call than not to call.

I just want to make sure that nobody reading this thread ever hesitates to call because of this thread. Hatzalah welcomes all phone calls.

OOTBubby

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:40 pm

amother wrote:

This.

I am a Hatzalah dispatcher. Our policy is that no one should ever hesitate to call. Let our responders determine if there is an emergency or not as they are trained to do so. And, yes, even on Shabbos. The psak we were given is that if people had to determine a true emergency, they would always hesitate and not call. We are instructed that every call, including Shabbos, no matter how trivial it may sound, must be treated as a true emergency.

ra_mom

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:48 pm

amother wrote:

You should disclose your location.
Because I have never, ever heard such stories with hatzalah.
Their help is real and life changing. Empathetic, always encouraging to call back even if they determine that the situation is not an emergency.

ra_mom

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:51 pm

The only way I've used hatzalah's services for small things like checking to see if we should go to the emergency room or if it could wait/urgent care is enough, is when I went to my hatzalah neighbor's door and personally asked him if he could help us. I didn't actually call hatzalah and make someone come down.

OOTBubby

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:53 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Our official policy in cases like that (note that I am not in the NY/NJ area) is that the responder you've reached out to must call it in as an official call. In reality though, they don't always do so. And they really don't like being approached that way.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, May 10 2018, 7:56 pm

amother wrote:

Octopus, from a wife or child of hatzola members point of view amother blush is not wrong! We've had our shabbos/dinner/family time ruined too many times to count because someone has a toothache, or a cut that's not bleeding, a tick or a weird rash. That's why I said you need to use seichel when to call. What is hatzola supposed to do for a toothache?? Obviously if someone losses consciousness don't think twice! On the other hand, if someone has a cut or you think your child is acting weird, go the the doctor, don't take the member away from their families.

And this is why people may hesitate to call - because of nosy busy body wives who find out about the call (which should be private and you shouldn’t know about).
I work in emergency medicine - plenty of people come in to the ER with seemingly innocuous complaints - it’s not my job to judge or gossip about it...it’s my job to treat.
The yenta wives are part of the problem....in addition to women not being allowed on the force which is a whole other issue I have.

amother

Taupe

Thu, May 10 2018, 8:14 pm

When I called Hatzala about a tick it was because my doctor didn't have an appointment until a few hours later and if I don't know how long it's been inside my child, it needs to be removed ASAP. Every hour can mean the difference between lyme disease or not.

WADR, nobody is running out of a business meeting for a tick. When I called Hatzala, I told them it's a tick and this is not an emergency, do they by chance have someone in the neighborhood available? The dispatcher can decide not to send someone or to keep me waiting. The hatzala member who comes also knows what the situation is before he comes. Members don't arrive to a tick scene thinking it's perhaps the scene of a heart attack.

Oh, and I would never call Hatzala for a tick ON SHABBAS!

ra_mom

Thu, May 10 2018, 8:26 pm

OOTBubby wrote:

I'm friends with his wife and I hope he didn't mind. He was so gracious, but then again maybe he was just being polite. It's definitely something to think about so thanks for telling me!

Notsobusy

Thu, May 10 2018, 8:31 pm

amother wrote:

Why can't you take out the tick yourself? I've done it plenty of times, we have a lot of ticks where we live. It's really not so difficult.