S/O where is the "I dont vax, AMA" thread???

amother

Linen

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 10:36 am

amother wrote:

I don't Vax. I spend a lot of time reading and learning about the issues before my kids were born and the more I have learned over the next decade or so has only reinforced my decision. My kids deal with none of the chronic childhood issues I dealt with and I believe there's a connection. The reason I wouldn't open myself up to sparring with all the vaxxers is because it's difficult to encapsulate all the information that has led me to.my decision. Most parents who opt out of vaxxing started off with all the conventional knowledge all of you have. Duh. But we dug deeper. I doubt many of you are willing to put the time in. It's much easier to listen to your doctor, rabbanim, and hold fast to that rather than do your own learning. Immunology and vaccination is large and vast. And what if you're led to a decision that contradicts the rest of your community? No, easier to have blind, misapplied "emunah"in the conventional advice and view those who know differently as ignorant, dangerous, halacha flouters. So I won't debate the merits of the science of my choice. I will say that I don't feed my kids junkfood and supplement their diets with quality and expensive supplements like vitamin c, cod liver, green powder etc. It's called immune support. Preventative medicine. So if G-d forbid they get something, it will be mild. Like they're chicken pox which barely bothered them. Sure, it was inconvenient into be home for overlapping chicken pox for a bunch of kids but that's life. That's health. Theres no magic shot to keep you disease free. Yes, there's polio and worse but theres so much more to it than you know. Not that it's not a really risk to live in a world with deadly disease - but knowledge helps a lot. Even polio isn't as simple as you were told. Theres a real cost benefit to every vaccine. Spend as much time as non vaxxers do learning and thinking and you'll begin to see that. Sure, a few stories here and there are statistically insignificant or false but there are thousands of them. All eerily similar. New books exploring connections between the skyrocketing autoimmune and neurological issues kids today live with and the foreign substances that are being injected into their bloodstreams come out all the time. Read one. If just for a laugh. It's scientific to try and make connections. It's not scientific to stop searching and blindly follow authority. Yes, the big companies do have billions at stake if even a little bit doubt enters the minds of parents. You're a nice person, sure, but the world out there isn't. I can show you my stats and you can show me yours all night long but it won't change minds. My advice is to look at doctors who have realized the actual health risks of vaccines firsthand and their attempts to find answers in the system. The rabbanim said you have to vaccinate but they never said you can't read one of the books. We do love out loopholes! Come on, rebel a little and see what some of your fellow Jews, parents just like you, are filling their heads with. You can laugh about it on Facebook but its funny, I don't hear anyone debating the real, compelling info out there. Once you know there are people just like you making this choice, you can never say you didn't know. Decide what you will, but own it and take responsibility. Or at the very least, give your fellow Jews from.you schools, shuls etc some credit. They're not reckless, ignorant murderers. And if you've put in the hours and hours of genuine research into vaccines and are still following the recommended schedule to the letter, at least you can feel good you're thinking for yourself. And you probably have a slight clue as to where you're non vaxing friends are coming from. May we all stay healthy in this scary world and be guided by our Gd given minds and hearts as we were meant to. And stop feeding your kids laffy taffy's for goodness sake!

Nope, nope, nope. I am going to listen to the medical professionals and the rabbanim. I am smart enough to know that I don’t know everything.

I also think that this hashkafa is extremely krum. Rebel a little! Don’t blindly follow authority! Honestly, the dangerous possibilities and what-ifs in life are scary. We are required to do our hishtadlus, and otherwise to rely on Hashem. What is our necessary hishtadlus? R’ Elyashiv said we must so whatever is considered normal for our times. The rest is in Hashem’s hands. I am not going to make my own decisions based off of google and take the lives and my children and many others into my own hands. I will do what is recommended and trust in Hashem.

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 10:36 am

amother wrote:

I made an intuitive decision and Hashem gave us intuition for a reason. I use it. But just because my intuition leads me to not vax, doesn't mean you shouldn't vax. If your intuition leads you to vax, go there.

I don't rely on other children being vaccinated, yada yada. It's an intuitive decision entirely. .

I made an intuitive decision not to put seatbelts on my kids in the car and hashem have us intuition for a reason. I use it. But just because my intuition leads me to not seatbelt my kids doesn't mean you shouldn't. If your intuition leads you to not seatbelt ur kids, go there.

I don't rely on other children being seatbelted or someone else crashing into me and killing my kids, yada yada. It's an intuitive decision entirely.
(Yes I'm being sarcastic)

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

It's actually a travesty that Rabbanim are paskining on vaccines and turning it into hashkafic issue! There are many Rabbanim who don't think vaccines should be compelled but do not want to create machlokes. Please dont make it a holier than thou argument - non vaxxers aren't disregarding guidance from doctors and rabbanim...just not the doctors and rabbanim you happen to follow. Vaccines are not a principle of emunah!! Hishtadlus for some.led them to realize vaccinating is harmful ....and yes, they too will rely on Hashem to protect them from hostility and the diseases that anyone can get, vaxxed or not. Have more trust in Hashem and stop vilifying your fellow yidden! No one is making decisions based on casual browsing on Google. Thats a myth!

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 12:49 pm

amother wrote:

Her intuition is based on a a certain understanding of science, not just a hunch, obviously. Your analogy is silly. There's really no risks in using seatbelts...that's why you don't see groups of individual actively educating others not to use them. Unlike vaccines, which do have enormous risks.

crust

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:00 pm

amother wrote:

But the minute some Wakenfield will want to sell his kind of seatbelt then you will find people advocating against the current seatbelts.

And all of a sudden pepple will have intuition as to which seatbelt is better for their kids.

My intuition is that they will choose the seatbelt that has a better salesperson. In the case of vaccines, Wakenfield and Co. did a great job.

Last edited by crust on Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:05 pm

wakefield has since been discredited by the Lancet the british journal in which his study was published due to mistakes and poor implementation

crust

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:08 pm

amother wrote:

wakefield has since been discredited by the Lancet the british journal in which his study was published due to mistakes and poor implementation

He was discredited but the side effects of his 'findings' are still here.
Same goes for 'Dr' Limoge.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:18 pm

crust wrote:

He was discredited but the side effects of his 'findings' are still here.
Same goes for 'Dr' Limoge.

Because the facts are still there. You know that there were people who didn't vaccinate even before Wakefield, right?

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:21 pm

just wanted to make sure everyone knows his poorly run study was discredited and hence his 'results".
since he is quoted so often
want to keep the record straight

amother

Magenta

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:21 pm

Just so you know, some of us on this site have lost children within a few days of vaccinating them and although we don’t think we “murdered them” we do feel horrible pain and guilt for what occurred. We usually don’t vaccinate the rest of our kids even if you think that might constitute murder.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:05 pm

amother wrote:

just wanted to make sure everyone knows his poorly run study was discredited and hence his 'results".
since he is quoted so often
want to keep the record straight

To keep the record straight: It wasn't a study per se. It was an observation he saw in many of the autistic children he treated, that they have vaccine strain measles in their gut. Fact is, as many moms of autistic children can attest to, that many (regressive) autistic kids do have gut health issues.

Fact is also that vaccines do have risks, unrelated to Wakefield. Every vaccine insert tells you that. Fact is that people refrained from vaccinating even before his observations were published. Fact is that a lot is still unknown regarding vaccine safety.

southernbubby

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:08 pm

At the moment, the only way to avoid rampant disease is vaccination. But science is always advancing and it is possible that someday this will be replaced with something else such as genetic engineering.

At present, there's a clinic that had an inept employee who spent the last decade dispensing too small of a dose of vaccines and now those kids have to be vaccinated all over again. I am wondering if some of the bad vaccine outcomes were overdoses due to human error.

amother

Denim

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 2:15 pm

crust wrote:

His name is wakefield, and he wasn't selling anything. In the pro-vaccine choice community there's a term for what happens to doctors who try to open their mouths against the establishment. It's called "wakefielded". Science these days is a dirty business, and just because a journal decided to retract his study doesn't mean anything [about the veracity of his findings]. And for the record, his paper had nothing to do with autism and vaccines per se, it was more about autism and poor gut health, which is a well known thing.

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 7:00 pm

https://medium.com/@lukeyamagu.....RA4Cw

amother

Mauve

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 3:13 pm

amother wrote:

His name is wakefield, and he wasn't selling anything. .

Yes he was. He had a financial conflict of interest that only came to light in 2004. He was launching a venture that would profit from the scare.

He was struck off the register for misconduct and fraud based on evidence presented to the GMC.

amother

Aquamarine

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 6:27 pm

I don't vaccinate because 1. Horrible vaccine injury 2. Several people who I know have lost children within 1 day of vaccinating. 3. I did my research.

I would never post an AMA thread on this because a lot of the vaccinators feel guilty or something and are hysterical, irrational, close minded, insulting, arrogant, intolerant of viewpoints other than their own, and uneducated and I don't feel like dealing with it. They won't listen to science, so hopefully they get to live in their blissful ignorance and never live with an injured or dead child.

amother

Red

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:51 pm

amother wrote:

I'm calling you out on this one - If this were even partly true then the CDC would have been well aware of it. If you know 'several people' in your small circle, consider that amount multiplied globally. The numbers would be too large for anyone to be able to ignore.

amother

Ruby

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:04 pm

amother wrote:

His name is wakefield, and he wasn't selling anything.

He was preparing to launch a "safe" vaccine. Definitely had a conflict of interest. Do your research.

amother

Magenta

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:05 pm

amother wrote:

I did, although it was more than one day, but less than 72 hours later. My doctor still says it was SIDS. Without my doctor confirming that it was indeed caused by the vaccine, the CDC won’t hear me out.

I still won’t vaccinate my other children.

amother

Goldenrod

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:05 pm

amother wrote:

Two people I know who've had this happen to them did not make the connection. One, a neighbor was merely showing videos of her baby during the shiva and she was talking about the baby, saying how just the day before she died, they were at the doctor and the baby didn't pee and they needed a sample, so the doctor said, leave the pamper off, we'll give her the shots and she'll pee from being startled, and that's what happened. My mother was hysterical when she came home from that shiva house. The kid had gotten vaccinated and died the next day, AND THE MOTHER DIDN'T REALIZE. She didn't know what to do with herself because she obviously wasn't going to tell the grieving mother this.
The other person had her questions and asked the doctor if it's possible that the vaccines her kid got were connected to her dying from SIDS. It was super painful because this kid had been born after a few years of infertility. The doctor denied any connection was possible at all. Said the whole shpiel of coincidence of deaths and statistics as they relate to 2,4, and 6 month well-visits. The mother is a more unquestioning temimus type and if the doctor said there's no connection, then so be it.

And I'm SURE that these two people I know aren't the only ones this has happened to. But the CDC never heard about these two, as they probably didn't hear of many others.