My husband shook hands with a woman

thunderstorm

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 1:42 pm

amother wrote:

You'r poor dh! I think you've mentioned other strict chumros that your rav has paskened for you. That's an impossible spot. To be sitting there with 3 other religious men all of whom can shake hands and your dh is sitting there trying to excuse himself.....tough spot. Like others have suggested before, time for a new rav. You deserve better.

The Rav that we use is actually one that we have switched to and are very happy with. This was still not a place where he believed he could give a heter. I like my Rav and so does my DH and it's ok to be told sometimes that something can't be done.

crust

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 1:56 pm

simba wrote:

I’m not understanding your response?

I'm saying that I can understand that he got lost. If someone was not prepared he can get lost from an unexpected handshake.

But-
I am confused how it can happen that a boy from a heimishe yeshiva doesn't "know" that we dont shake hands.

thunderstorm

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 2:10 pm

crust wrote:

Maybe he meant to say he didn't know if it's ok under certain circumstances.

Learning

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 2:15 pm

crust wrote:

Obviously he was caught off guard and acted as he could not to offend the woman. He was upset about it and told op. Idk why you are giving her dh a hard time. He obviously didn’t know what to do at the moment. So. Crust are you suggesting that dh is a bad man and did it for enjoyment?? What is your agenda here?

amother

Ivory

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 2:45 pm

Try it with a different halacha and see if your reaction is the same.

Eg, my husband ate xyz hechsher, he Knows we dont eat that, despite there being respected Rabbonim who say its permissable etc...it was respectfully offered by a colleague and he just didnt want to hurt the guy's feelings etc

If your reaction isnt the same, then something other than halacha is bothering you, and you may want to work on that instead of agonizing over this minor incident

amother

Purple

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 2:47 pm

crust wrote:

Very simple. He was taught this, but was never trained how to handle such situations. Ergo, he fumbled. As would so many of us, if we would be in the same situation.

All his actions demonstrate is that he is human.

amother

Sapphire

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 3:12 pm

Op anyone can say "I would never do that" but do u really know wat its like to be caught off gaurd. I was caught off gaurd so I shook a man's hand. But, now I try to have the courage to say I dont shake hands for religious reasons. I dont explain that its for a man....I just say for religious reasons and noone has ever been offended. But, its hard bec many times im caught off gaurd like the other day I was telling a colleague something and all of a sudden, he wanted to high five me.

I am usually in front of a lot of ppl wen I have to announce "sorry I dont shake hands for religious reasons" and it takes a lot of courage to out myself like that but so far ive tried to remember ti say it.

So, ive never encountered anyone who knew about it this prohibition beforehand and never encountered anyone who was offended. But, its hard to do.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 3:19 pm

I once went with DH to an event from his business. One of his workers came to introduce himself and gave me his hand, I was lost and shook his hand....It was a mistake and I laughed it off and we forgot about it. Hope DH doesnt think less of me.

dankbar

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 3:23 pm

Many Chassidishe boys live a sheltered life & everything is very segragated while growing up. They don't even know that it's the norm in outside world when people engage socially or in business with opposite gender first thing is a handshake, a hug a kiss, not to flirt but as a civil gesture. The first time they encounter such scenarios is in the workplace. If they weren't generally prepared for this you can't blame him on how he reacted.

Your mom or teacher probably prepared you before you started working.
If he's a grown man, his parents probably didn't prepare him now after marriage.
If he was starting on a first job now, why didn't you prepare him if you are the more experienced & educated here.
How do you expect him to know what to do?
They should know what nisyonos are out there before starting to work & learn how to handle them.

amother

Black

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:34 pm

amother wrote:

My dh is a chassidish frum man. He never looks directly at women, but he shook hands with a (non jewish) woman at a meeting because he was lost/wasn't sure if it usser or not Hypnotized

I view him as a klutz right now! The handshake per se doesn't bother me as much as the fact that it's common knowledge that men dont do handshakes with women. Why was he 'unsure' or lost?!

Even more bothersome is - why do I respect him less now?! Why do I view him as a klutzy klutz after this incident?? Am I overreacting?

You’re right what he did is worse then murder. Have him arrested then divorce him.

simba

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:41 pm

crust wrote:

He knew what to do but got caught off guard.
OP did not mention if he has been in business for years or this was his first time in that situation. Could be he wasn’t expecting a woman there or that it was a very important meeting that he was nervous about and that threw him off.
Your comment makes it seem that you are suspicious that it’s not only a handshake. Why would he come report it to his wife if that was the case?

amother

Crimson

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:46 pm

amother wrote:

My dh is a chassidish frum man. He never looks directly at women, but he shook hands with a (non jewish) woman at a meeting because he was lost/wasn't sure if it usser or not Hypnotized

You are 100000 million % overreacting. Are you so insecure?
He's most definitely aware that he shouldn't have shaken her hand. Maybe he didn't want to embarrass her. Why do you care so much? I see the problem in you more than in him.

Miri7

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:48 pm

There are some frum people who will shake opposite gender hands when offered in situations like this.

Not shaking can embarras the other person and cause a chillul hashem. Best to make a plan in advance. If I’m going to meet someone for the first time like a work colleague, I may say - “as you know I’m an observant Jew, so I wanted to give you a heads up that I don’t shake hands with men. I wouldn’t want this to catch you off guard.”

This isn’t possible at a conference, where you’re meeting many random people. But you can smile really nicely and say, I’m so happy to meet you, but I don’t shake hands with women. I’m very interested to hear about your work in x, though...”

If you’re working in the wider world you just need a plan on how to deal with it.

crust

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:54 pm

simba wrote:

Ok. I have no clue where the bolded is coming from. I am not talking in riddles. I did not think her husband is a bad man or that he is doing something other than what he said he's doing.

I am saying that I am very confused or maybe shocked that a boy from a chassidishe yeshiva said that "he doesn't know what we do". Thats all.

In my circles this knowledge is a given. I guess I don't know everything.

I think that he was so shocked that he 'forgot' what we do rather than 'didn't know' what we do.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:59 pm

crust wrote:

I agree with all your posts on this matter. (Yeshivish background here.)

amother

Linen

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 6:14 pm

No time to read the full thread now, but I wanted to give u a funny spin. I once sat near a non jewish male on a flight. He wanted to shake hands as we left saying goodbye. I politely declined, saying I don't shake hands w men for religious reasons.
He said oh ok and proceeded to squeeze my shoulder/half hug me instead. 😂

It's really not on most ppl's radar, and most ppl will not understand your refusal to shake hands.

Anon bec I've told this story a lot.

tigerwife

Sun, Dec 02 2018, 7:30 pm

crust wrote:

Have you ever been in this situation? I have. I would never offer a handshake to a man but I’ve been in situations where it came up and I was caught off guard and took the hand in order not to offend the other party. I hate doing it, even though I have been told that a handshake in a business setting is not derech chiba and allowed bidieved. I wish it was simple to just offer an explanation, but there have been times when I have even anticipated a handshake prior to a meeting and tried to come up with a plan to avoid it yet it became unavoidable. I’m not proud or happy about it, but this is not a situation that occurs out of forgetfulness. It comes from being flustered and not wanting to offend, especially in a business situation where it will cost you a deal.