Do your kids get dessert if they didn't finish supper?

Moonlight

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

Do you "threaten" them to finish eating or else they won't get dessert?

I'm asking from a chinuch hashkafic pov as well as from a pov of creating healthy eating habits.

I did not read through the thread but yes actually.
If I see dinner is not getting eaten I will often say, whoever finishes the protein on their plate can have a piece of chocolate.
Not a real dessert but a little treat, yes.
Because suddenly they'll wolf down that chicken, have 1 piece of chocolate, and not come back later telling me they're hungry.

mommyla

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:11 pm

amother wrote:

How do you determine what/how much is considered normal?

It's a good opportunity to teach kids about balanced meals. There are always options that they like. They have to have some protein and something else filling (usually starch) - so one kid will have a bowl of soup with noodles and veggies and chicken and another will have a slice of gefilte fish or salmon and potatoes. I also always have turkey (the "healthier" kinds like oven roasted and grilled vs. smoked), hard-boiled eggs, and yogurt available, so if they don't like what's served or don't feel like eating it, they can help themselves to something else.

I'm blessed that they enjoy certain veggies and will always have a plate of cut-up peppers and cucumbers, which always gets eaten, so I don't have to push veggies. As for portion size, that varies by the type of food and the age of the child.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:50 pm

keym wrote:

OK. Then I can't relate. By me, breakfast is served only in 6th grade and up. Until then, its my choices. Cheerios, oatmeal, yogurt, toast and eggs. And through preschool (4yr old), I send lunch and a healthy snack. So he eats what I send. Morahs give one nosh like cookies. They're home by 3:30. So I could control what they eat mostly. Except birthdays.
5yr olds get served lunch and snack, but they're still home by 3:30. And 6-8 yr olds by 4:15. So I could give healthy breakfasts and they're hungry enough by supper to eat healthy supper. Even if lunch is junk.

I consider cholent to be healthy because most are served with potatoes, assorted beans, barley, and a little meat or bones for flavor. And school cholent has no meat.
So it may not have vegies, but it does have strong nutritional value.

I wish I could send lunch.
Totally different scenarios here.
Playgroup serves lunch. School and yeshiva serve breakfast, lunch, and snack plus all kinds of programs and events.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:51 pm

Moonlight wrote:

Right. I see this happen too often.

KKS

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 1:17 pm

OP, I would highly recommend reading Ellyn Satter's work. I implemented her Division of Responsibility model with my kids appx 3 years ago and its been a game changer. The goal is to raise kids that are independent, healthy and competent eaters.

She divides feeding into jobs that are the responsibility of the parents vs kids. Parents decide the WHERE, WHAT and WHEN of mealtimes/snacks. Meaning - where the meal is going to be held, what food is going to be served and what times meals and snacks are.

The kids job is to decide WHICH foods they want to eat and HOW MUCH they want to eat. Parents do not get involved in this at all.

In her book "Child of Mine: Feeding with love and good sense" she outlines what this looks like at each stage of development ie: infants, toddlers, preschoolers, etc...

This system might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I have seen how well my kids have responded to this system. They know how they handle themselves around ALL types of foods, they have learned to trust their hunger/fullness cues, and they are adventurous eaters and willing to try new foods (although they definitely have food likes and dislikes). Its like a dream come true! and it hasn't always been this way...

My kids are still young and don't have as much access to the loads of junk that older kids may, however I trust that when they hit that stage they will know how to handle themselves - and thats my goal. I don't want to be policing their intake. They need to learn how to feed themselves competently, this doesn't magically occur when they become adults (in most cases).
And I do see this in action during the times of year that they have loads of junk, like simchas torah and purim. They know how many treats to eat before they start feeling ill and they'll put the rest away for the future since they know I won't be throwing it all out when they're asleep.

dankbar

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 1:28 pm

Didnt read entire thread.

Answer to your OP :

No! threatening is not a good idea for chinuch & also not a good idea to establish healthy eating habits.

Why do you think he is not eating properly, because it becomes a fight, if you force him to eat, you are creating bigger problems. ( food aversions, eating disorders, etc) He will continue to test you with food as long as it's a fight.

Also, you mentioned that you don't do dessert every day, just it was Rosh chodesh! Why are you giving a Rosh chodesh treat, to make the day special, create good memories! What will he remember? That he didn't get the treat because he didn't like the supper? That he was fighting with you? That in order to have a special Rosh chodesh treat, he had to fight you tooth & nail.

Make it a pleasant experience...when everyone is done with supper...announce today we have a special treat for Rosh chodesh & bring out your ice cream cake & give everyone a slice.

Using the treat as a stick, defeats the whole purpose of the treat. Sometimes you have to give just because.

dankbar

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 1:49 pm

By forcing kids to finish their plate, saying things like, no you are not full yet because I still see food on your plate, or stuffing him with just another two spoons...when he stating that he's not hungry, he is full, stomach hurts....you are taking away the knowledge & confidence from the kids to take the cues from their own body & only eat till satiety. Then we have a different problem,
Obese adults who can't stop eating when they reached satiety

KKS

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 1:55 pm

dankbar wrote:

Agree 100%!
The amount of adults who are totally out of sync with their body's hunger/fullness cues is alarming - and this develops by kids being taught that they can't be trusted with knowing how much to eat at a given time.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:09 pm

KKS wrote:

I didn't have the problems I have now when they were younger. My kids are overloaded with junk all the time and have a hard time regulating themselves. If I totally let go, I don't see it ending well at all.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:10 pm

dankbar wrote:

Good points!

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:11 pm

dankbar wrote:

What you could do instead of threatening & turning into a negative situation, turn it into a positive one. You say, without any mention before... Oh wow! I see Chaim ( other member of fam) finished his meal, so he is ready for dessert! Let me see who else is ready for dessert....dont worry they will all finish their plate fast to be able to get dessert

Except those who won't finish their plate and will complain and whine about why they can't have dessert yet.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:12 pm

dankbar wrote:

I hear, but then why should he be stuffing himself with dessert?

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:21 pm

amother wrote:

I hear, but then why should he be stuffing himself with dessert?

Question for you. Do your kids ever leave nosh or junk behind? Like on Purim or Simchas Torah or a siyum or dessert? Do they ever leave half a slice of cake over cuz they're stuffed and ask you to save it for later?
Cuz I realized, I get less nervous about my kids stuffing their faces because even on Purim they'll eat some, and turn some down, and request some to be put aside for later?

Depending on your answer will depend on my response.

If they do recognize they're full, then there are ways to work. Save nosh for tomorrow, etc.

But if they don't even have the ability to stop, then I'd speak to the Dr.

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:42 pm

My kids are generally picky eaters and like junk but I don't seem to have this issue and am really trying to figure out why. Maybe it is because I serve them dinners that I know they will like and want to eat. That is the only reason I can think of.

ETA: Also, if I defined pizza and pasta as junk I probably would more often have the problem of them not eating/finishing their meals.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:42 pm

keym wrote:

I can't say never but very rarely.
One kid to a greater extreme than the other. Like one kid I can "buy" off their leftover nosh and the other never has any nosh left to buy off. This same kid also drinks a whole bottle of soda unless someone stops them and eats sugar cubes at the coffee machine in shul. Conversations about making good choices in food and also about being mentchlich and leaving over for others help for about 2 days.

keym

Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:57 pm

amother wrote:

This totally deserves a spin off. But the best advice I got was not to "buy off" their nosh, but let them save it for later and give them a bit at a time. Once I started that, the mindless face stuffing stopped. Because they knew they could have it later.

But about the other kid, I would have a conversation with the Dr for starters if he's over 8. Why doesn't his "full-o-meter" register? There are people who don't register full ever.