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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:42 pm
amother wrote:
Squishy , she seems to be taking up a lot of your energy and head space. Just wondering why you're paying so much attention to her and why you seem to be so obsessed over her? Politicians come and go. There are many of them. Many of them make lots of ridiculous noise. Many are smart, many are stupid, many make lots of noise. Most don't become president or go anywhere special. Why are you so hyperfocused on her?


I am not hyper focused on her. I started this thread in the a.m. and came back to it 5 1/2 hours later.

AOC puzzles me. I knew someone like her in grad school. She came across as someone intellectually challenged but could keep up with us in school work in a challenging field. I used to wonder how she got in.

I think there is going to be books and a movie about her.
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:43 pm
Fox wrote:
Honestly, it's a bit of a moot point whether President Trump is "smart" or not. When Presidential IQs are estimated, one of the top handful is always President Carter. While IQ scores are only one measure of intelligence, certainly his academic and military career suggests that he was very, very intelligent. But as we know, his presidency wasn't exactly a stunning success.

Most professions or complex roles require a certain level of intelligence in order to do the job at all. But if an individual has that basic level of intelligence, being "smarter" doesn't necessarily confer added advantage.

The IQ level needed to do the job of President would appear to be approximately 120-130. But once you hit that level, being extra-smart doesn't necessarily make you a better President.

And that's why I find it so ridiculouus when people claim that Trump "isn't smart." I'm pretty confident his IQ would measure out at 120+ -- so whether it's actually 121 or 160 isn't really relevant.


Honestly, I think he'd probably do terribly with IQ testing, way lower than you're estimating. Especially on the verbal and memory aspects. He has extreme limitations in thise areas
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:44 pm
amother wrote:
Thinking that Trump is smart is not a political disagreement. It’s being so far removed from reality that it’s useless and a waste of everyone’s time to even engage.

Wow, you really are close minded. I suppose you think he takes cues from putin, ghost wrote the art of the deal, smollett was attacked, and that conspiracy theories are the sign of the desperate.
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amother




Navy


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:47 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Wow, you really are close minded. I suppose you think he takes cues from putin, ghost wrote the art of the deal, smollett was attacked, and that conspiracy theories are the sign of the desperate.

[personal attack removed and amother is no longer allowed to post anonymously in the politics section]
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:49 pm
simcha2 wrote:
As I've said, I'd love to see the language to which you are referring.

Not so sensitive to what Trump says. But his playing to fears is not subtle. It's right out there. His language is purposefully inflammatory. He continually conflates issues to make them fearful. And it works.

I've posted this many, many times. The language of the Castro Report (U.S. Commission on Civil Rights) in 2016 was truly shocking and startling to me. The presumption that bigotry is at work when sincere religious values conflict with the current zeitgeist -- and that religious values must be forced in line with contemporary ideas -- was absolutely huge for me.

When I've posted it before, several posters have said that they don't find the language threatening in the least. Unless they are actually non-observant Jews who are on Imamother illicitly, I think they are being completely delusional. The attack by the left on Christianity -- particularly Orthodox and Evangelical Christianity -- is an attack on Orthodox Jews. We just haven't caught the left's attention yet.

Of course, Obama had foreshadowed this worldview on the campaign trail and by his administration's overreach through the DoEd, the IRS, etc. But negative information was always kept very, very quiet by the state propaganda machines.

As for Trump's subtlety, I don't think anyone ever accused him of being subtle. Personally, though, I'm happier with a lack of subtlety than I was with all the Obama cover-ups.
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:51 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Squishy no one else has suggested that her bf is behind her because that would be extremely sexist.


So it is hands off exploring whether her BF does for her what he does professionally because it is sexist? Does that make sense? Suppose he is behind her success?

I have never been one that thinks women aren't as capable as men. I just think some women aren't as capable as some men just as I think some men aren't as capable as some women.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:54 pm
roses wrote:
Honestly, I think he'd probably do terribly with IQ testing, way lower than you're estimating. Especially on the verbal and memory aspects. He has extreme limitations in thise areas

An IQ of 120 is not exactly a standard of brilliance; most mid-level executives would have an IQ of at least 120. I am unaware of any available neuropsychological testing results of Trump, so unless you have some inside information, it's kind of silly to speculate.
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 4:55 pm
amother wrote:
You suppose? See, that’s what we call smarts. Someone who can suppose everything about me and all my thoughts from one comment that I made. I’m taking a moment to really appreciate how smart this is.


You can't insult behind amother. I thought her post was funny and much more intelligent than your posts.

You sound like a 2 year old.
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:09 pm
Fox wrote:
I've posted this many, many times. The language of the Castro Report (U.S. Commission on Civil Rights) in 2016 was truly shocking and startling to me. The presumption that bigotry is at work when sincere religious values conflict with the current zeitgeist -- and that religious values must be forced in line with contemporary ideas -- was absolutely huge for me.

When I've posted it before, several posters have said that they don't find the language threatening in the least. Unless they are actually non-observant Jews who are on Imamother illicitly, I think they are being completely delusional. The attack by the left on Christianity -- particularly Orthodox and Evangelical Christianity -- is an attack on Orthodox Jews. We just haven't caught the left's attention yet.

Of course, Obama had foreshadowed this worldview on the campaign trail and by his administration's overreach through the DoEd, the IRS, etc. But negative information was always kept very, very quiet by the state propaganda machines.

As for Trump's subtlety, I don't think anyone ever accused him of being subtle. Personally, though, I'm happier with a lack of subtlety than I was with all the Obama cover-ups.


Not quite seeing how this is fear riling the base. Also not Obama's language.

You can say you find this scary, but it is not using fear to whip up support.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:21 pm
amother wrote:
Thinking that Trump is smart is not a political disagreement. It’s being so far removed from reality that it’s useless and a waste of everyone’s time to even engage.

Oh, please! Either engage or don't, but don't engage just long enough to pretend that your time is too valuable to engage.

This is actually pretty fun to watch on Twitter, where people routinely attack until they're outmatched, issue a final obscenity or two, and then pre-emptively block their opponents.
___________________________

On an only slightly irrelevant note, this happened last week with AOC and Chad Felix Greene:

When news broke that Amazon was pulling out of NY, Greene (who had worked for Amazon in the past) tweeted that of course Amazon wouldn't work with unions because their entire culture is based on performance metrics that are at odds with union values.

His point was that he agreed with AOC that the Amazon deal wasn't a good one.

But AOC (or whoever manages her social media) obviously checked and saw Greene writes for The Federalist. She assumed he was criticizing her, so she bit back. Then, her followers inundated Greene with increasingly stupid attacks telling him what he "obviously" meant and telling him what a waste of humanity he was.

It was like the Twilight Zone. AOC supporters kept attacking him for agreeing with AOC. For a while there, everyone thought we'd end up with another Milo situation. Fortunately, everyone got distracted by Jussie Smollett before Greene could get banned from Twitter or get his gay card revoked. But like Rachel Fulton Brown pointed out, you are attacked for who you are, not for your opinions.
___________________________

President Trump doesn't have to be stupid for you to oppose him. He doesn't have to be smart for people to support him. You can generally oppose him but disagree about certain things. You can generally support him but disagree about certain things. You can even be completely impartial and just pray that he doesn't make things significantly worse.

What I find objectionable are the contortions people go through to insist that everything Trump does is awful simply because he did it. And, no, I can't think of any notable Trump supporters who are not professionally engaged in their support who are equally obtuse. There are regularly huge arguments among general supporters over whether something Trump has done is good or bad.

We had a great example of that this week, when an initiative was announced to end the criminalization of homosexuality throughout the world.

Now, the Torah perspective on homosexuality is not the current contemporary one, but I think most of us could agree that throwing men accused of being gay off of buildings or dangling them from cranes is bad.

Whether this initiative will be successful or not is questionable, but it is certainly laudable. Yet all the left-leaning LGBT publications pulled long faces, and one wrote that this effort is actually racist; that Iran's treatment of gays isn't really that bad.

That's what we mean by Trump Derangement Syndrome: an LGBT publication that would rather endorse hangings to punish allegedly gay people than simply admit that Trump is attempting to do a good thing.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:23 pm
Yeah that was so infuriating.

I can’t describe the utter rage it made me feel.
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:24 pm
Fox wrote:
An IQ of 120 is not exactly a standard of brilliance; most mid-level executives would have an IQ of at least 120. I am unaware of any available neuropsychological testing results of Trump, so unless you have some inside information, it's kind of silly to speculate.


Why is your speculation about his IQ ok, and my speculation about his IQ is silly? Just wondering about the double standard here.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:31 pm
simcha2 wrote:
Not quite seeing how this is fear riling the base. Also not Obama's language.

You can say you find this scary, but it is not using fear to whip up support.

I think you're being naive.

First of all, Obama made numerous comments like this, most notably during the 2008 elections.

Second, this kind of veiled attack on religious people most definitely "riled up the base." It empowered groups like the Colorado Human Rights Commission to throw impartiality and due process out the window when confronting the Masterpiece Cake shop -- and find themselves overruled by the Supreme Court.

It encouraged minorities to believe that white Christians hated them in an attempt to get out the vote in 2014.

It led to unconstitutional questioning of judicial candidates by Senators Feinstein and Hirono.

It led to attacks on Karen Pence for teaching art at a Christian school.
___________________

President Obama's administration consistently advanced the idea that traditional religious values = bigotry. And that worldview was articulated in the Castro Report.

The consistent attitude I've discovered among left-leaning Orthodox Jews is that "those people" -- the Orthodox/Evangelical Christians -- are different from us. Yes, they are. But not in the minds of leftists. The same values and mentality that condemn Karen Pence will turn on us, sooner or later.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:33 pm
roses wrote:
Why is your speculation about his IQ ok, and my speculation about his IQ is silly? Just wondering about the double standard here.

I'm not the one who brought up his intelligence. I think it's probably high enough to do the job. However, I'll rebut the assertion that he's "stupid" because there's no real evidence that his IQ is below normal.

Typically, what people mean when they say he's "stupid" is that they disagree with him or don't like him. Someone can be disagreeable or unlikeable -- which Trump often is -- without being "stupid."
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:45 pm
Fox wrote:
I'm not the one who brought up his intelligence. I think it's probably high enough to do the job. However, I'll rebut the assertion that he's "stupid" because there's no real evidence that his IQ is below normal.

Typically, what people mean when they say he's "stupid" is that they disagree with him or don't like him. Someone can be disagreeable or unlikeable -- which Trump often is -- without being "stupid."


You did speculate on a number. So the discussion was definitely open for speculation.

There is a lot of evidence that he has impaired language abilities. His written communication is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, he demonstrates serious language impairments in his verbal interactions, as well as highly impaired reasoning ability, all of which is measured on intelligence testing. A reasonably educated person can pick up on these deficits, even though I don't know his testing scores.
I'm pretty sure he would measure with serious learning and /or intellectual disabilities. He does compensate, however, with other areas of intelligence that he does possess, notably social intelligence, which helps him fool a lot of people. But that's not tested on IQ measures.
So we have a president who likely has a subpar IQ with probable learning/intellectual disabilities, but of course this is all speculation
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:54 pm
roses wrote:
A reasonably educated person can pick up on these deficits, even though I don't know his testing scores.

That's simply untrue. There are all kinds of things that interfere with language and communication. It takes a neuropsychologist to evaluate all the factors and determine whether they are linked to intelligence or something else.

Speculating on it is ridiculous, and I was simply attempting to point out that Presidents' IQs have had a large range, and that exceptional intelligence has not necessarily correlated with successful presidencies.
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amother




Seagreen


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 5:57 pm
Fox wrote:
I'm not the one who brought up his intelligence. I think it's probably high enough to do the job. However, I'll rebut the assertion that he's "stupid" because there's no real evidence that his IQ is below normal.

Typically, what people mean when they say he's "stupid" is that they disagree with him or don't like him. Someone can be disagreeable or unlikeable -- which Trump often is -- without being "stupid."


But he does have a way of coming off as unintelligent. Maybe if you really like him you don’t see it.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 6:06 pm
amother wrote:
But he does have a way of coming off as unintelligent. Maybe if you really like him you don’t see it.

Of course he does! He has a way of coming off as an obnoxious jerk, too. Sometimes I see that he's tweeted and I just close my eyes, thinking, "What now?"

But overall, I'm relatively pleased with his performance. Someone -- a random nobody who got retweeted -- said that he'd voted for Trump "and I'd be happy if he did 20 percent of what he said he'd do."

Like I said, outside of professional activists, you find very, very few uncritical Trump supporters. Once people discover that they won't face social media mobs of Trump supporters if they don't enthusiastically endorse his every breath, they get real very quickly.
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 6:10 pm
Fox wrote:
That's simply untrue. There are all kinds of things that interfere with language and communication. It takes a neuropsychologist to evaluate all the factors and determine whether they are linked to intelligence or something else.

Speculating on it is ridiculous, and I was simply attempting to point out that Presidents' IQs have had a large range, and that exceptional intelligence has not necessarily correlated with successful presidencies.


You really don't need to be a neuro-psychologist to make a reasonable assessment. If someone has enough familiarity with the components of a standard IQ test, it is possible to look at Trump's expressive language abilities and make an educated guess on how limited he would be on those measures. And IQ tests heavily rely on measures of language abilities. So IQ score would certainly be impacted. IQ testing doesn't look at underlying factors- it measures cognitive skill at the time of the testing. So whether his deficits stem from a bad night's sleep, dementia, learning disabilities, a severe personality disorder, delusions, forgot to take his meds etc. Wouldn't really matter when obtaining an IQ score.

If he would get a comprehensive neuropsychological examination, all of the above factors would be considered, along with his IQ scores, to explain why our president is so erratic, cognitively impaired, emotionally unstable, forgetful and lacking in reasoning abilities

I also agree that exceptional intelligence does not a good president make.
It does help, however, along with other important cognitive and emotional abilities, such as good emotional regulation skills, good working memory skills, good reasoning and problem solving abilities, cognitive flexibility, etc
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Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Feb 20 2019, 6:24 pm
roses wrote:
You really don't need to be a neuro-psychologist to make a reasonable assessment. If someone has enough familiarity with the components of a standard IQ test, it is possible to look at Trump's expressive language abilities and make an educated guess on how limited he would be on those measures. And IQ tests heavily rely on measures of language abilities. So IQ score would certainly be impacted. IQ testing doesn't look at underlying factors- it measures cognitive skill at the time of the testing. So whether his deficits stem from a bad night's sleep, dementia, learning disabilities, a severe personality disorder, delusions, forgot to take his meds etc. Wouldn't really matter when obtaining an IQ score.

If he would get a comprehensive neuropsychological examination, all of the above factors would be considered, along with his IQ scores, to explain why our president is so erratic, cognitively impaired, emotionally unstable, forgetful and lacking in reasoning abilities

I also agree that exceptional intelligence does not a good president make.
It does help, however, along with other important cognitive and emotional abilities, such as good emotional regulation skills, good working memory skills, good reasoning and problem solving abilities, cognitive flexibility, etc


You've been influenced by a meme that's not recent. Attacking a Republican president for being unintelligent and/or incompetent is an old tactic. It was done to Bush 43, Quayle (vp), Reagan, Ford etc.
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