Monsey commuting to Passaic girls school

gold21

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 10:48 pm

In my reality, I really don't feel judged by anyone for my hashkafos and I don't judge anyone for theirs. I live in a community where there aren't so many labels.

I honestly think that humans have an innate need to "belong" somewhere. When a community is small enough that all members can identify as part of the community, they accept each other and everyone belongs. The larger the community, the more likely that people feel the need to identify with sub-groups within that community. By identifying with a sub-group, they have a place to belong. Then the labels begin. Which sub-group do you belong to? What does that say about you? And the judgement begins.

Reading through this thread is really unpleasant.

I think there's judgement on all sides, in larger communities. Not so much judgement in smaller communities.

As an aside, there are few, if any chassidim, in my town.

gold21

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 10:53 pm

amother wrote:

In my opinion, I think I think chasidim are more accepting of other Jews than non-chasidim towards chasidim.
In my chasidus, it is halacha for a three year old girl to wear tights. Not minhag. Not chumra but halacha. I went to a doctor with her and a non-chasidish women wrinkled her noise and commented loudly for all to hear.

It's a chumrah that your chassidus adheres to.

Mommyg8

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 10:54 pm

amother wrote:

Amother teal, whats halacha is halacha for everyone. Halacha is written in the torah. A dayan does not make up halacha. A dayan's p'sak is not halacha.
Btw, we are chassidish.

A dayan actually does create halachah. When a Rav gives a psak, it's binding on the person asking. This is actually how the halachic process works. And I'm yeshivish (maybe, sort of) if that matters.

amother

Beige

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 10:58 pm

amother wrote:

For you it is a chumra and minhag. For us it is halacha. You can have a nice conversation with one of our dayanim, if you want to, just like I did when my daughter turned three. This is just another example of how many people perceive certain things done by certain chasidish groups and make ignorant conclusions.
There are 70 ways to interpret the Torah. I never said mine is the correct one. But it is the correct one for me.

I'm not sure if that's correct. You can't call something that is not halacha as halacha even if your dayan says so. Perhaps the minhag hamokom in your community makes it into halacha.
I'm not trying to nitpick and actually admire your conviction. Just looking if someone can clarify that sentence, because somehow it doesn't seem clear cut like that.

gold21

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 10:58 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

A dayan actually does create halachah. When a Rav gives a psak, it's binding on the person asking. This is actually how the halachic process works. And I'm yeshivish (maybe, sort of) if that matters.

Whether or not it's binding doesn't make it halacha. Cool

Mommyg8

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 11:24 pm

amother wrote:

Halacha is found in the Torah. No one can make up new halachos, no one can add to the Torah.

Rabbanim interpret halacha, so if your Rav issues a psak it's halacha.

This is how halacha works. Halachah is not written in Torah shebichsav, and not even in Torah shebaal peh (we don't pasken from the Gemarah). It's what Rabbanim have decided over the years. It's not a free for all - you can't just make up halachos - it has to follow a process. Generally, if rov poskim agree on something, then that becomes halacha.

The halachic process is what allows us to live in the modern world. There are shaylos that come up almost every day that are completely new as our world is so quickly changing - almost every day it seems - and the halachic process is what allows us to keep the Torah in every and any kind of world.

amother

Ivory

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 11:33 pm

It's basically only some chassidish sects out of all jews in the world that put on tights by 3. There's no halacha pertaining only to a small percentage of Jews, that is called a minhag and chumra.
Halacha is written in the torah, anything added are chumras.

Mommyg8

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 11:34 pm

amother wrote:

Again there is no such thing as a halacha written in the Torah.

To prove my point- name me one.

Mommyg8

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 11:41 pm

amother wrote:

I'll start with 10, the aseres hadibros.

Yes, and what exactly do they mean? Shabbos, for example - how are you supposed to keep Shabbos? Maybe it means I should hang up a sign on my front door and that's it? Maybe I should sing nice shabbos songs (you know a kumzitz)? It doesn't say anything in the aseres hadibros as to what keeping shabbos entails. This is in the Gemarah (Torah shebaal peh) and how the many thousands of Rabbanim have interpreted it to mean. So that's why we need to open a shulchan aruch to learn halacha - the chumash is not helpful.

Again, it's Rabbanim who ultimately decide halacha. It even says in the chumash - loh bashamayim hi - even if a bas kol came out with halacha, it does not override a psak from a flesh and blood poiseik.

gold21

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 12:27 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

If I wasn't so tired right now, I would formulate a clearer response.

But yes, Torah SheBaal Peh and Torah SheBechsav go hand in hand. With that said, rabbonim today are not creating new elements of Torah Shebechsav. They are not creating new halachos. They are using existing halachos and paskening accordingly.

That's all I could conjure up to write at the moment.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 1:15 am

amother wrote:

I'll start with 10, the aseres hadibros.

What are you talking about? Halacha is not written in the torah. I dont know why you keep saying that.
The mitzvos are written in the Torah. Curious why you picked the 10 dibros and not all the other 603 mitzvos. Where in the Torah are the halachos about the dibros stated?
And yes halacha could be different for different people. Not everyone has to hold the same way. Read sifrei teshuva from R Moshe and R Shlomo Zalman to get an idea.

gold21

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 1:36 am

amother wrote:

Yes, halacha can be interpreted differently by different rabbonim. They don't decide new halachos. They interpret halacha and pasken accordingly.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 1:52 am

gold21 wrote:

Yes, halacha can be interpreted differently by different rabbonim. They don't decide new halachos. They interpret halacha and pasken accordingly.

Right. But that means that at the end of the day, different people will recieve different psak halachos based on how Rabbanim have interpreted.
Someone wrote upthread if its halacha its for everyone. That is false.
I dont understand the concept of telling someone that what their Rav paskened as halacha, very likely basing it on age old responsa, that it's just a chumra they want to keep and not real halacha.
It seems that people believe that only what they do is actual halacha. More is a chumra amd less is a kulah. Though I guess technically the first part is how it should be. You should feel what you are doing is whats halacha for you as per your derech and Rav. However one must be openminded to realize that other people and derachim have different halachos.

gold21

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 2:23 am

amother wrote:

I know the basic halachos. There are stringencies that are standard in my circles but I think it's important to know the basic halacha as well.

For ex, for Shiva Nikiim, in my circles we do Hefsek, then bedika twice a day for 7 days. Basic halacha is Hefsek, then once on day 1, once on day 7. In my circles, girls begin to dress more tzniusdik around age 6/7. Basic halacha is bas mitzvah age. Etc.

Yes, I like knowing basic halacha. Everyone should.

amother

Teal

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 1:21 pm

amother wrote:

The same chasidic group who paskens that girls wear tights at three also pasken that any and all boxes of food, plastic rip-open containers, individually wrapped ices boxes, milk bottles, soda, packaged goods, plastic bags containing disposables, can be ripped even if the container remains usable. This is halacha for us.
If I may ask, is this halacha for you?
And by the way, this same group is the most lenient when it comes to shaalos of taharas hamishpacha. According to one of the foremost poskim in Boro park, they are the most lenient than all shades and stripes of klal yisrael.
The chumra word is used again and again in non-chasidish circles. It is thrown around much too often.