How is NY affordable?

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amother

Powderblue

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 11:54 pm

I just moved to NY from a nice non-midwestern OOT community. All said and done, monthly recurring bills like auto, insurance, utilities and so on, it’s $400 more per month. Salaries are 15% higher here for my profession. Just on that, I’m coming out ahead. I’m renting though I could outright buy and would recommend renting strongly. It all works out, IYH, if it’s supposed to.

seeker

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 12:24 am

amother wrote:

Yes, it is a good point, and it's actually more affordable for some families to stay in NY- vs moving somewhere that they have to pay huge amounts out of pocket for the equivalent therapies. Also, the availability of Jewish schooling options outside the mainstream is dramatically reduced oot, and most places do not have the "sue the boe" workaround to make them financially feasible. So if people want to keep their kids in a Jewish framework it can be $$$$$.

Ah, in that sense yes absolutely. Still, that just makes NY better than the alternatives - for many people that is still likely unaffordable. Though you can live in a less expensive area and still technically qualify for a serviced district. And some things go through the state so depending what you're looking for it doesn't have to be obnoxiously inflated NYC.

DVOM

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 6:52 am

A bit off topic, but I've been wondering... In 1979 my parents bought their heart-of-Flatbush 3 bedroom detached home for 65k. It's now worth close to a million dollars. What the heck happened?

amother

Smokey

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 7:17 am

People might start with a less expensive starter house (small, attached, not prime neighborhood), build some equity, then sell it and trade help. They may get help from parents. There are also things you save on - e.g. transpiration , food, tuition , real estate taxes. You can also rent out basemens or buy a 2 family, and use the rent to pay off the mortgage.

amother

Denim

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 8:50 am

seeker wrote:

Oh of course this conversation went straight to government programs... let's not harp on frum community and government programs here though because there are LARGE populations of other ethnicities who also theoretically should not be able to afford to live here.

First of all, it's not really affordable. A lot of people are struggling.

Secondly, most people don't own million+ dollar homes. Yes, renters pay through the nose to live somewhere they don't own. That's the cost of living in a desirable place.

Third, as others said, you tend to live in a much smaller space than would be normal anywhere else. Think 10 people in 2 bedrooms (with a couch bed in the living room I guess, and maybe an enclosed porch to make another nook.)

Tuition here, depending on the school, is significantly less than what I hear of out of town except in Lakewood. So if you have a bunch of kids, it would cost a lot more to school them elsewhere. Jobs tend to pay more, especially in certain fields (contributes to the high cost of living for some of the people paying for these services, but that's not your problem if you're on the earning end.) Your kosher meat and CY dairy and other "Jewish" products are much cheaper, again a boon for larger families. You don't really need a car because things are basically on top of each other, and public transportation is ample (though getting more expensive. But discounts for students, seniors, and disabled. And monthly passes.)

Family support means a lot, and I don't mean only monetary - emotionally plus things like if you live near your parents and siblings then you can trade childcare and meals and things like that that you'd pay for if you didn't live near them.

I think about moving out all the time and the balance sheet ends up similar both ways. I would have MUCH lower rent but also a much lower paying job, significantly higher tuition unless I move to a very specific location where there are tuition vouchers but even worse job prospects, no helpful family (could potentially make friends but not nearly the same) plus need to pay more time and money to visit family (for me personally it would be a very big difference in babysitting costs.) But I would still not recommend NY in general as a place to set up a home.

Which jobs pay more in NY?

amother

Khaki

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 8:55 am

many if not most jobs pay more in NY then the midwest, not sure about other OOT communities. My dh is in computers. He used to work in NY and now in the midwest, his salary definitely went down but our house costs less...

amother

Olive

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 8:59 am

DVOM wrote:

A bit off topic, but I've been wondering... In 1979 my parents bought their heart-of-Flatbush 3 bedroom detached home for 65k. It's now worth close to a million dollars. What the heck happened?

Yes! Same with my parents. Pretty similar purchase price and now if they sell it would be more than 1million. Crazy.
And people say well salary went up too, but Im pretty sure not at the same degree. I dont have numbers of average salaries then and now but I'd love to see if anyone has.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 9:01 am

amother wrote:

Which jobs pay more in NY?

Almost all.

seeker

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 9:08 am

amother wrote:

Salaries didn't inflate nearly as much as real estate. But higher salaries than places that are more affordable, combined with other factors, could make it worth staying.

seeker

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 9:10 am

amother wrote:

Which jobs pay more in NY?

Pretty much anything that doesn't have a standard national rate. Minimum wage is minimum wage but after that... I'm in education, this is one of the (if not The) best paying states for that. Even nannies and tutors make more here, because they work for people who can afford $2mil condos.

Sebastian

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 9:13 am

seeker most people who stay or move to NYC do it to cut down on commuting time, marry off their older dds or for the services available in NYC (I'm talking ppl who live in the metro NYC area).

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 9:26 am

I really don't know how people buy. I used to live in a tiny (and I mean tiny) apartment in Queens. I know it's not Brooklyn, but it's still very expensive. I know people who bought putting down only 3% and lots of help from parents.

I moved to a more out of town community (not really OOT, but not NY or NJ) and my mortgage + insurance + taxes for a 5 bedroom 4 bathroom semi-detached house with a nice size backyard, is about what I paid in just rent on my 1 1/2 bedroom tiny apartment. Yes the salaries are lower, but not by a lot (maybe a $3K-$5K difference). Tuition is a bit higher, but again, not by much. As a whole I am way more ahead now than I was in NY.

And my quality of life here is 1000 times better now. My husband doesn't have an hour + commute to Manhattan anymore. He's home for supper and homework now.

I do miss some of the amenities (like busing to school and not really needing a car because everything is walking distance), but weighing everything out, still am much happier since I left.

Ema of 5

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:13 am

I haven’t read through all the comments, so I may be repeating what others have said.
NY, particularly NYC, is NOT affordable. Many many many people are actually moving out. My pesach shopping is going to be 2x as expensive, because the less expensive store that I get deliveries from (in Brooklyn) is not doing deliveries until after pesach, and the stores in my area are super expensive. I wish I could drive to Brooklyn and do my shopping there, but it’s not possible :-(
I hope to move out of NY(C) in a few years, but my husbands job is in NY, and NJ is not much better.
How do people afford it? Many are in serious debt. Many are living from paycheck to paycheck, or even worse. Many scrimp and cut corners whenever and wherever possible.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:26 am

It's not really affordable. But you don't come out so far ahead elsewhere either. Cheaper housing often comes with needing two cars, so it evens out in the end. Middle class salaries are not keeping pace with the cost of living and it's a huge problem. There's going to be a reckoning sooner or later, and it's going to be very ugly.

gold21

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:29 am

I guess the question is, Where is it affordable?

I would be interested in hearing from those who find their lifestyles affordable, outside the NY area. Without that information, it's hard for me to know if it's just that times are tough (Salaries have not increased at the same rate as the cost of living.... Real estate prices are sky high in many places.... Etc). Life is expensive, the question is if NY is the issue or if it's the reality for many families across the US. I wonder about this often.

gold21

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:29 am

amother wrote:

Yes, I agree that the middle class is being messed over.

ra_mom

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:31 am

amother wrote:

This. The numbers are pretty even all over after all factors are calculated.

amother

Orange

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:33 am

No one put this point in. We bought about 15 years ago when prices were about half of what they are now. We lived in a relatives basement for the first few years of marriage rent free and saved every penny to be able to buy. So yes we live in something worth $1 million but didn’t pay that!

ectomorph

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:34 am

People tell me Chicago, baltimore, Philadelphia, Cleveland, south bend are affordable.

gold21

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:37 am

ectomorph wrote:

People tell me Chicago, baltimore, Philadelphia, Cleveland, south bend are affordable.

Interesting. I heard that Cleveland & South Bend do not have a robust job market. Though I imagine that anyone in healthcare could find a job anywhere- every city, even in Nowheresville, needs medical staff.

I feel like Baltimore, Chicago, & Philadelphia, probably have stronger job markets.

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