How is NY affordable?

gold21

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:09 am

amother wrote:

We moved from NYC to oot and we definitely came out ahead. Tuition is the same, housing is 1/3 of the cost, we got another car, but our car insurance went down by half. As far as salary one of us works remote so income is the same the other works in healthcare and salaries are about 10% lower here, however we also save on income tax. In NYC you'll pay one of the highest income taxes.

Wow, very cool!!

And the income tax thing is so true.

You know what would have been really cool? If in high school/sem, we had a Cost of Living class where we did research & critical analysis of different places and compared cost of living. Seeing as so many of us get married young before we've really seen the world, a class like that would be super helpful.

gold21

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:10 am

solo wrote:

Property tax on my 4 bedroom house in Brooklyn is 7k. When I looked in Monsey it was closer to 20k for 4brm homes. In Lakewood it was 13k.

So it also depends where you're working. If you're living in Monsey but working in the city then yeah. But let's say you're living in Lakewood and working in Lakewood, then the difference in income tax should be taken into account. Because NYC has super high income taxes. So working outside of NYC has an advantage that offsets some of the property tax costs.

gold21

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:12 am

mha3484 wrote:

I live in Chicago and I would call it medium expensive. We looked into cheaper places like southbend, Milwaukee etc but due to one of my kids needs I can’t be in a place with one school for everyone. I do feel we get more for our money and I am very happy with my quality of living and lack of social pressure which is really important to me. The rage in my second graders class now is a $10 card game called top trumps.

Nice! It's refreshing to hear from someone who feels that they are living in a place with good quality of life.

gold21

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:15 am

amother wrote:

I can’t speak for anyone else but myself.

We came from israel with no degree and barely business level English. I got a job in a real estate office and my husband after struggling a few months got a job in a nursing home.
Our income was 50k with two kids.
After two years, our salaries went up to 70k.
My parents gave us 50k for a down payment and we bought a semi attached two family house that needed a ton of work and was located on the outskirts of the neighborhood .

Four years down the line, our house value went up 300k. I left real estate and work in a school with multiple responsibilities . My husband went into a new company of nursing homes. I work 9-5 and my husband is out of the house 7-7 with commuting once a week to PA. At nights he does some extra work. We work like dogs but We have what we need with a little extras such as small vacations with cc points or going out to eat from time to time. We don’t spend money on fancy clothing from Jewish stores or expensive shaitels. I live simply day to day.

We recently refinanced this house and used the money as a down payment for our next single family house while keeping this two family as an investment.

Currently our income is 100k for my husband plus about 15k from his night job, 75k for myself and 22k from our rental.

We have 4 kids now.

I think the key to success is not to look for the picture perfect house at the perfect location at the perfect price. You need to take whatever makes sense at that time and accepting that you can’t have it all will make things doable.

We live in the heart of the NY Jewish community.

I hope this helps you get a picture of how you can grow and live within your means.

So... That is very cool and I think it's amazing that you are so focused and have a great work ethic and have made good financial decisions. Kol Hakovod.

With that said, two points:

1. Many people don't receive a down payment from parents.

2. Many people davka don't want to be part of the rat race, where both parents are always working. They want a slower pace of life. That's part of the appeal of out-of-town.

gold21

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:22 am

dietcokeaddict wrote:

Don't assume it's all from living up to the jones. Frum life is incredibly expensive. Full stop. Even if you watch the buck and don't buy into every ridiculous trend, there's yt and tuition and Jewish clothing and Simchas and sheitels and kosher food and on and on.

An average-sized family needs to be earning way above the national average just to survive. Not just to get the best of everything.

So true!

I tell this to people all the time. (My husband, my friends...)

Seriously, in what universe do moms splash out 6K for 3 wigs @ 2K a wig? Hello? Seriously? (Yes, I know I rounded off the prices.... some wigs are more expensive, some are cheaper, some women have only one wig, and some have fourteen wigs. Just trying to make a point. Lol.) You can't afford a beautiful wig?. Oh my. Nebach. How sad. Everyone deserves to wear a beautiful mop of someone else's hair.

And keeping kosher- two sets of everything. And making Pesach- huge expense. And two sets of clothing- shabbos and weekday. And making succos- u can't afford to buy a hut? Omg, this is a crisis. Everyone must be able to afford a hut! And the fact that we need Jewish infrastructure to live, so we can't just pick a random affordable community and move there. It needs to be frum-friendly, with appropriate schools, mikvaos, shuls, etc.

Lol. Yes. Very expensive lifestyle.

gold21

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:32 am

seeker wrote:

"Everyone must be able to afford a hut"

Remember when there was this popular blog that had hand-drawn graphics on index cards for random life situations? I'm picturing right now a venn diagram where one side is "Orthodox Jews," the other side is "African Southern Lowlands" (OK I have no idea if that's even a place sorry) and in the middle overlap area goes "Must afford a hut"

Haha!

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:51 am

seeker wrote:

I do this every so often but I can't remember what that blog was called, haven't seen it in about a decade. Anyone know what I'm talking about? It was really great. I think the writer put out a book of it, too.

Was it Orthonomics? She actually introduced me to imamother.

And for those saying that Jewish life is expensive by definition, that's only true for tuition. (And I realize that's not exactly an "only.") And if you move to Israel, that's less of an issue. Yes, you need two sets of dishes, but they don't have to be bone China. You can wear a mitpachat instead of a sheitel. Etc.

gold21

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:54 am

amother wrote:

Plenty of non Jewish people pay private school tuition.

And Jewish culture is expensive. I'm not even going to argue that point. (Just to respond to your example, two sets of non-bone-china, well make that three, because of pesach dishes, is more pricey that one set of non-bone-china.)

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:02 am

gold21 wrote:

Pricier, but you're less likely to spend big bucks on things like football uniforms etc. I was objecting to people thinking that frumkeit requires them to live like one percenters.

amother

Magenta

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:02 am

I live OOT and I always thought the main advantage was space but reading some of these replies I'm now thinking otherwise.

My state has no income tax
I thought our property taxes were high to make up for that, but on my 3000sq ft house I'm paying $4000 a year
My mortgage is less than a 2 bdrm apt in NY
Kosher food is more expensive, but regular groceries are way cheaper - so I think that evens out
Salaries here are a little lower, but not significantly, and there's definitely no rat race, much calmer quality of life
Two big expenses: Tuition ranges from 10k - 17k elementary through HS. There are scholarships, but will still end up paying more than NY
Health ins here is a fortune and much harder to get on federal programs

All in all, I definitely think the cost of living is much lower. I would say a family of 6 can live very comfortably here on 200,000, much lower than in NY

ectomorph

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:04 am

I guess I'm lucky I live oot in a non pressured community.

Plenty of ladies only wear head wraps or preties. The more new yorky types wear sheitels but its not a must.

I don't even own one complete set of china (its an 8 service and I'm missing most of the pieces). I don't use milchigs anyway, if I woild I would use disposable

Even non Jews have fancy and less fancy clothing. My neighbors dress up for church. Not that different.

Tuition is the biggie.

ectomorph

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:05 am

amother wrote:

Same same.

watergirl

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:14 am

dancingqueen wrote:

A note about sheitals: many non-sheital wearers spend a lot of money getting their hair cut and styled and highlighted/dyed. So I’m not sure sheitals end up being much more expensive.

But frum life is definitely very expensive. Tuition is the biggie. Kosher food and Yom Tov/shabbos also add up.

Many non sheitel wearers order tichela from Ali for $2/each. What people spend on a wash and set, I spend on 15 tichels. Like everything else, this is a choice.

notshanarishona

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:18 am

amother wrote:

And food and making shabbos and yom tov expenses and tznius clothes . There r a lot more expenses than just tuiton.