What would it take for you to make Aliyah?

mommy3b2c

Wed, May 01 2019, 12:41 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Please explain what you feel an "actual sign of it happening again" would be?

Perhaps when there’s a shooting in synagogue and the parents of the shooter don’t condemn their son and praise him, and instead of the nation joining the Synagogue in mourning, they applaud the shooter. I would call that a sign.

amother

Goldenrod

Wed, May 01 2019, 2:37 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Not happening because the people who want those schools aren't making aliya.

Don’t blame us. No one wants to have their kids be guinea pigs. The fact remains that it is not easy to integrate into the Israeli school system, and no one wants their kids to fall through the cracks.

amother

Cyan

Wed, May 01 2019, 2:47 am

I would come in a heartbeat, but we are doing really meaningful and important work in Jewish education and communal work. (ok really My dh is) and we would need to find something financially sustainable while continuing to make a difference in the Jewish community if we moved to Israel.

We talk about it a lot.

Also, education for our children in Israel is more polorizing and extreme so that’s something to consider.

It’s a real dream of mine. And I believe that when things are meant to be HaShem creates a path for you.

Israeli_C

Wed, May 01 2019, 2:53 am

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

And I believe that when things are meant to be HaShem creates a path for you.

I totally get your post (as someone also involved in Jewish outreach etc) but this line has me confused. Hashem made such obvious miracles in the past 100 years to even make aliyah such an accessible option. So many wars where we were hugely outnumbered and pitifully equipped, Israel came out victorious against all logic and reason. Other than a hand extending from shamayim and putting you on a plane with a one way ticket, I don't know what more Hashem can do for us!!

Last edited by Israeli_C on Wed, May 01 2019, 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sapphire

Wed, May 01 2019, 2:53 am

Not sure I can until Moshiach. My husband is a ger. When he went to yeshiva he found out that due to politics he couldn't marry in Israel and they won't recognize his conversion. He went through an accepted Beis Din but was told it is all politics. Can't Believe It

Plus how everything is political there... Just can't stand it. Sheitel or snood? Color tights, color yalmulkah etc all define you there while in our community we can have friends who are different, we can all go to the same shuls/schools, and we wear what is comfortable or preferable to us.
Also worried about schooling options, cultural barriers, the pushing, "that's how it is done" etc. the crazy government offices....
That's besides not knowing if our jobs would transfer there, finances, family being so far away...

There is a huge difference between creature comforts (brands or house size), which can be comparable to the onions and leaks, to real issues like are we even considered married, can we survive minimally, and major cultural considerations that may make our kids ostracized and bullied. And I know plenty of kids who went off the derech or abused drugs to mask the pain of such things. Or who were abused because they were easy targets.

amother

Cerise

Wed, May 01 2019, 3:25 am

I made Aliya when I was 19 and started becoming frum. I left after 4 years.

I don't think I'd ever go back unless it got safer there and I'd have super Hebrew as. My Hebrew always was terrible.
What I'm also missing is good salaries and job security and all the financial security I have in Europe. In israel, if you're pregnant and can't work anymore, you quit your job. Here you go to the doctor and get to stay home throughout the whole pregnancy and get your full salary. Plus one year maternity leave. Don't wanna miss that.

DrMom

Wed, May 01 2019, 3:35 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Not true at all.

FranticFrummie

Wed, May 01 2019, 3:36 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Slightly off topic. I am so sorry your DH is going through that. The politics with conversion all over the world are terrible, and cause an immense amount of suffering to so many people. Those rabbis are going to have a lot to answer for in the world to come. Mad

grace413

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:04 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Plenty of Jewish kids in the US are also go off the derech and abuse drugs or are abused.

You would definitely be considered married here.

essie14

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:19 am

Israeli_C wrote:

Forrealx

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:34 am

DH can't stand heat he sweats already a huge amount in the Manchester ''sun''. So how would it be in Israel? Fruthermore he can't stand the people in Israel, he finds them rude and not a good example for kiddush hashem. There are no manners there according to him and even the israeli politics are not good for him. And I have kinda the same when I don't want to get drilled or be told off. Find the people more mean and the most craziest thing is that I don't feel safe in israel. And I dont want my kids in the army. The funniest thing though is that we are not chassidish although I have some friends who are chassidish and have the same ideas kinda as me... Maybe we need to change our derech

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:41 am

Forrealx wrote:

You'll get an air conditioner. For whatever reason, Hashem didn't choose a cool country. (I made aliyah from Canada. I know something about adapting to a different climate.)

And I'm not exactly convinced that politics in England are better than in Israel.

salt

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:00 am

Forrealx wrote:

Sounds like a modern day version of the 10 meraglim (shlach lecha).
Only difference is that you can't even say 1 nice thing (at least they brought back good fruit to show for).

Israeli_C

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:02 am

Forrealx wrote:

Fruthermore he can't stand the people in Israel, he finds them rude and not a good example for kiddush hashem. There are no manners there according to him and even the israeli politics are not good for him. And I have kinda the same when I don't want to get drilled or be told off. Find the people more mean and the most craziest thing is that I don't feel safe in israel.

Hoooooo...

As someone born in Ireland and who was once your nextdoor neighbour (hello!), I hate to break it to you but British 'politeness' is about as real as Katie Price's you-know-whats. In Israel, what you see is what you get. And after 23 years of enduring BS 'politeness' and breaking my back bending over for social etiquette, I find the Israeli approach VERY liberating! When someone's my friend she's REALLY my friend.
She'd cut off her right arm for me and be there for me to the bitter end.
She'll give me directions and walk by my side even though she doesn't have a clue where we're going.
She'll run a few blocks just to return my baby's pacifier after it fell out of the pram.
She'll tell me my clothes tag is showing and tuck it in for me and give me a clap on the back.
She'll scream at some randomer in the supermarket and cause a scene because they cut ME in the queue. Even though she wasn't even lining up.

I never had such strong bonds with my fellow countrymen. When I returned from my first trip to Israel, the plane landed and all the Israelis got off the plane and scattered themselves, getting usurped into the crowds of a foreign airport. And I never felt so alone. I could have cried. I think that's when I knew that whatever happens, my destiny is with the Jewish people and the Jewish people's destiny lies in Israel.