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Poll

Do you think I did the right thing?
No! Why did you do this to yourself? You will be bored stiff.
 13%  [ 14 ]
Yes! You will have peace of mind.
 74%  [ 76 ]
Who knows? Only time will tell.
 11%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 102


keym




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 12:52 pm
Yael wrote:
I'm sorry to break the news, but it's not the same posters over and over. I have checked to see if that was the case, but it's really not. We have at least 20 different antivaxxers who post.


Really?
Based on the most recent postings, I would have thought it was much, much more.
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:05 pm
Yael wrote:
I'm sorry to break the news, but it's not the same posters over and over. I have checked to see if that was the case, but it's really not. We have at least 20 different antivaxxers who post.


That's still only a handful- a small percentage of posters. How many members r there altogether? What percentage r they ?

When u.glance through these threads there seem to b much more.

Either say -Why should they be allowed to b e Ammon???

If they r so sure about something that u r willing to literally RISK LIFE OR Death- then can't they be willing to stand up to ur conviction and handle the flak???

If they can't handle that posters "may not be nice to them anymore" they should keep. Quite and think twice before total lies.
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Yael




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:09 pm
Quote:
If they r so sure about something that u r willing to literally RISK LIFE OR Death- then can't they be willing to stand up to ur conviction and handle the flak???


I suggest you start a thread in the vax forum asking them.
Why do they post anon? what would happen if I took away anon posting?
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momsrus




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:13 pm
Yael wrote:
Quote:
If they r so sure about something that u r willing to literally RISK LIFE OR Death- then can't they be willing to stand up to ur conviction and handle the flak???


I suggest you start a thread in the vax forum asking them.
Why do they post anon? what would happen if I took away anon posting?


they were asked

They're answer is there's so much hatred they're afraid
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:18 pm
momsrus wrote:
they were asked

They're answer is there's so much hatred they're afraid


They said it's bad enough their children aren't allowed to go to school and no one's allowed to play with them, they don't want to be ostracised or have their antivax opinion taint other conversations.
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Yael




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:27 pm
mig100 wrote:
if you have a link to that study- id be curious to see it.

full study:
https://pediatrics.aappublicat.....1117?

summary:
Quote:
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Interventions to address vaccine hesitancy and increase vaccine acceptance are needed. This study sought to determine if a Web-based, social media intervention increases early childhood immunization.

METHODS: A 3-arm, randomized controlled trial was conducted in Colorado from September 2013 to July 2016. Participants were pregnant women, randomly assigned (3:2:1) to a Web site with vaccine information and interactive social media components (VSM), a Web site with vaccine information (VI), or usual care (UC). Vaccination was assessed in infants of participants from birth to age 200 days. The primary outcome was days undervaccinated, measured as a continuous and dichotomous variable.

RESULTS: Infants of 888 participants were managed for 200 days. By using a nonparametric rank-based analysis, mean ranks for days undervaccinated were significantly lower in the VSM arm versus UC (P = .02) but not statistically different between the VI and UC (P = .08) or between VSM and VI arms (P = .63). The proportions of infants up-to-date at age 200 days were 92.5, 91.3, and 86.6 in the VSM, VI, and UC arms, respectively. Infants in the VSM arm were more likely to be up-to-date than infants in the UC arm (odds ratio [OR] = 1.92; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.07–3.47). Up-to-date status was not statistically different between VI and UC arms (OR = 1.62; 95% CI, 0.87–3.00) or between the VSM and VI arms (OR = 1.19, 95% CI, 0.70–2.03).

CONCLUSIONS: Providing Web-based vaccine information with social media applications during pregnancy can positively influence parental vaccine behaviors.
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:35 pm
mig100 wrote:
That's still only a handful- a small percentage of posters. How many members r there altogether? What percentage r they ?

When u.glance through these threads there seem to b much more.

Either say -Why should they be allowed to b e Ammon???

If they r so sure about something that u r willing to literally RISK LIFE OR Death- then can't they be willing to stand up to ur conviction and handle the flak???

If they can't handle that posters "may not be nice to them anymore" they should keep. Quite and think twice before total lies.


I agree that they are a small percentage of total posters. It would be interesting to see what percentage of active posters they are. The percentage would be even higher.

It would be even more interesting to see what percentage of the ultra frum population they are. Ultra frum women are under underrepresented in this forum and indeed most other forums if not all.

Couple this with the study that Yael mentioned about new mothers having access to information about vaccines. Is there a way to reach them? I don't think the information coming from their doctors is getting through.

How do they do their "research"? I can't imagine that not so well educated people can understand scientific studies. I have trouble with them and have to Google terms or ask MD friends. Give me something on finance, I can understand the most complex concepts with ease. Juxtapose the ultra-frum anti-vaxers trying to read these reports (not the summaries) against educated people. It's no wonder that the conclusions are not supported by the evidence.

Maybe this isn't the time to form a vax-exit movement on this site. If we can help just one new mother, then it is worthwhile. Don't think of it as arguing with the anti-vaxers. This of it as educationing the new moms. Who knows, you may be saving a life.
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:42 pm
Yael wrote:
Quote:
If they r so sure about something that u r willing to literally RISK LIFE OR Death- then can't they be willing to stand up to ur conviction and handle the flak???


I suggest you start a thread in the vax forum asking them.
Why do they post anon? what would happen if I took away anon posting?


this question has been posed many times to them. they can answer it here if they want

the most common answers I can remember

" its an unpopular opinion- and we are looked down upon for having unpopular opinion". ummmm. yes doing something that can endanger lives - YES MEANING CAUSE PEOPLE TO DIE- is not a popular thing to do... if you want to do -be ready to face the consequences..

"posters are not nice to us when we say were are anti-vax" ummmm- we are Talking about LIFE and DEATH !!! SERIOUSLY?? KIDS ARE HANGING ON TO LIFE IN THE ICU!!!! YOUR BIGGEST CONCERN IS ABOUT PEOPLE BEING NICE TO YOU?????

ITS LIKE HAVING A MURDER ON THE LOOSE- AND NOT TELLING ANYONE- BECAUSE THEN PEOPLE MAY NOT BE NICE TO THEM

besides the fact that ive been attacked plenty of times by anti-vaxers
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:49 pm
keym wrote:
They said it's bad enough their children aren't allowed to go to school and no one's allowed to play with them, they don't want to be ostracised or have their antivax opinion taint other conversations.


Very sad that they are so stubborn about something that causes their family to be ostracized. As has been pointed out, anti-vax hatred isn't simply because they exist or have a minority opinion. It is because some of them have no regard for the health of others. Those who would move heaven and Earth not to expose anyone else suffer due to the wanton carelessness of those who don't care who they infect.
IMHO, if you live in a building with common entrance ways and communal elevators, it's the height of chutzpah not to vaccinate.
If you let your contagious kids run around in common areas of an apartment building, you deserve the condemnation so stop complaining about sinas chinam.
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:51 pm
Squishy wrote:


Maybe this isn't the time to form a vax-exit movement on this site. If we can help just one new mother, then it is worthwhile. Don't think of it as arguing with the anti-vaxers. This of it as educationing the new moms. Who knows, you may be saving a life.


im afraid more of these new moms- will be swayed with their nonesense. the anti-vaxers ARE FULL OF LIES AND MISQUOTED MISCONTRUED NONESENSE.

EVERYONE OF THEIR POSTS IS MORE RIDICULOUS THEN THE NEXT and honestly - I dont have time to point out how HORRIBLY WRONG THEIR POSTS ARE.

even if posters- respond with facts- the fact is they planted in mothers minds that their "facts' may be the "truth"

I think much better- the new mothers should get their facts from other sources- and never see their nonsense.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:56 pm
Yael, this is all fascinating. I'm curious about your personal views. Do you support vaccination?
[I pmed you- Yael]
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 2:00 pm
Yael wrote:
Quote:
If they r so sure about something that u r willing to literally RISK LIFE OR Death- then can't they be willing to stand up to ur conviction and handle the flak???


I suggest you start a thread in the vax forum asking them.
Why do they post anon? what would happen if I took away anon posting?


To answer your second quesitons- they would stop posting.

this thread is proof of that.
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Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 2:19 pm
Squishy wrote:
I agree that they are a small percentage of total posters. It would be interesting to see what percentage of active posters they are. The percentage would be even higher.

It would be even more interesting to see what percentage of the ultra frum population they are. Ultra frum women are under underrepresented in this forum and indeed most other forums if not all.


Interesting point. I'm curious now, whether the anti-vaxers on this site skew more left or right from a frumkeit standpoint
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 2:22 pm
Laiya wrote:
Interesting point. I'm curious now, whether the anti-vaxers on this site skew more left or right from a frumkeit standpoint


Who cares?? I don't.

This is not a religious issue. It's a medical / science one.

Let's stop claiming these nonsense a"religious" beliefs. Keep religion out of it.

Ok - I'm back to work now
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 2:29 pm
I'm chareidi and one of the most vocal pro vax posters
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 3:09 pm
Laiya wrote:
Interesting point. I'm curious now, whether the anti-vaxers on this site skew more left or right from a frumkeit standpoint


Only Yael knows for sure.

Maybe start a poll for anti-vaxers.
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giselle




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 3:39 pm
It seems to be more of a chasidish phenomenon than yeshivish. (Not to say that it’s more than just a very small percentage. And I have a “friend” who is none of the above and doesn’t vaccinate.)
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 3:42 pm
giselle wrote:
It seems to be more of a chasidish phenomenon than yeshivish. (Not to say that it’s more than just a very small percentage. And I have a “friend” who is none of the above and doesn’t vaccinate.)

Az I've mentioned before, I'm on a very large non-jewish parenting group about a specific issue and I'm one of the very few people on this group who vaccinate their kids.
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giselle




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 3:50 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Az I've mentioned before, I'm on a very large non-jewish parenting group about a specific issue and I'm one of the very few people on this group who vaccinate their kids.


I meant in the frum world. Anyway that’s not fact, just my perception.
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Einikel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 4:09 pm
I’m chassidish and we vax. But I do see that it’s common in our circles not to vax or to be skeptical about vaccines.
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