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dorothy1

Thu, May 16 2019, 12:42 pm

pesek zman wrote:

I gathered as much but how are they haskafically different than anyone else ? Or rather, what’s their hashkafah?

They have a different learning style and a very specific hashkafa but to put it simply very learning focused , out of town yeshivish , Kiruv oriented. Most men from the yeshiva will work in chinuch for life .

amother

Khaki

Thu, May 16 2019, 1:34 pm

Wow, didn't know there were so many other CC ppl on here Smile

In terms of CC hashkafa, it's basically a Slabodka mesorah of being very into mussar (mussar seder every day), gadlus ha'adam, learning b'iyun to develop skills and strengths and not just to cover ground, saying a pshat that's muchrach (makes sense, holds up to scrutiny, not just sounds cool), and harbatzas torah. The musmachim generally start educational or outreach institutions across America or become shul rabbis. They are also famous for not making all their students wear white shirts and black suits; most of the student body does that anyways, and many branches have different rules.

@ boobasheli- CC run schools have higher tuition? That makes no sense to me. Do you have examples? It could just be that OOT schools in general are higher. I'm sure they have scholarships and breaks for those who need.

To add an answer for the OP: Check out Buffalo Grove, IL. They have a CC run elementary school, along with all the usual (shul, mikvah, eruv, bakery, groceries, etc) and are close to Chicago if you want access to a big city. There are only a couple CC families there but the community as a whole is very wholesome and growing, and they are actively recruiting young families to join them.
Also agree with the Las Vegas (Henderson NV, really) recommendation. They have everything you need in a community (the mikvah is undergoing construction) and are growing very fast.
If OP is looking for a CC style community, the Waterbury is NOT the way to go, imho. It's way too in-town in terms of the societal pressures and community expectations.

Boobasheli

Thu, May 16 2019, 1:42 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

Wow, didn't know there were so many other CC ppl on here Smile

Yes, that is what I meant. I got the feeling that OP is looking for a CC style community, not necessarily an actual CC one. In general OOT tuition is drastically higher than heimish in-town schools.

amother

Azure

Thu, May 16 2019, 1:47 pm

Op, you can find a community with cc families. I’m sure it will be nice for you.

Yes, kgh is very expensive!

If you are not looking specifically for a cc yeshiva group you can also look into Passaic, Staten Island, Teaneck, Baltimore to name a few other options.

amother

Crimson

Thu, May 16 2019, 1:54 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Good to know... Unfortunately, my oot community is behind☹️

I live oot and our school is actually ahead. A friend who moved from Lakewood needed tutors for her son to catch up. So that point is definitely not true across the board.

amother

Pearl

Thu, May 16 2019, 2:32 pm

I want to adress the point pple are making about the schools being ahead/behind. Schools that are run on a purely CC model will b'shita be behind other schools. The reason for this is that their derech of learning is much more in depth and skill building based and not just to cover a lot of ground. Is it better to know more parshiyos or to know fewer but know them better and really know how to learn? That's the difference between CC schools and other mainstream yeshivish schools. I used to send to a standard yehsiva and then moved to a CC community. The difference in the learning was night and day (in a good way, IMO). They drill shorashim and prefixes/suffices so much more. There is a much bigger emphasis on skill building. My kids are a year behind in chumash than their friends in their previous school but who cares? What's the race? I'd rather they be behind and graduate with amazing skills. It's not that they spend less time learning, they just allocate that same learning time differently.

Another big difference between a CC run school and a typical Yeshiva school is that the CC style is very community / kiruv oriented. so while a typical Yeshiva might have rules that the parent body has to cover their hair or can't have TV/internet excetera you won't find that in a CC run school because they don't want to be elitist. They specifically want to attract the families that do have TVs and do not cover their hair possibly, and have a good influence on the children from those families and help them grow. the student body in the schools tend to be a very beautiful mix of yeshivish and just plain frum, and some who are first just learning to become frum.

one last thing I want to mention is, if your boy goes through the whole system through their post High School, all the focus that there is on learning musser produces really quality young men and future husbands. Their graduates tend to have stellar middos and make amazing husbands. I credit my good marriage Bla'h to all the mussar my husband learned (and still continues to learn a decade after he got his smicha. There's something real to be said for that.)

SacN

Thu, May 16 2019, 2:57 pm

Quote:

Finally, oot schools are behind in town schools. It's common for kriah to be taught in 1st grade, siddur end of 1st grade, and Chumash at the end of 2nd grade.

Just saying, I live in E"Y and my kids are in mainstream charedi schools. This is the schedule Bais Yaakov uses here. The boys do to a a year earlier, but there are heaps of parents holding cheder boys back to get another year on the foundations of kriya.
The older, the better, imo. I certainly never thought of my kids as behind.

In kodesh, they're miles above the average American school.

Op, I lived in Queens when I first got married. I loved everything about the CC mentality. Good luck finding a place!

miami85

Thu, May 16 2019, 5:35 pm

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

Orlando , Vegas , Vancouver , north Miami Beach , in queens they are trying to open a community with more affordable housing so far 8 -10 families (forgot the name of the neighborhood)

East Meadow, NY

ruchelbuckle

Thu, May 16 2019, 5:35 pm

Quote:

Finally, oot schools are behind in town schools. It's common for kriah to be taught in 1st grade, siddur end of 1st grade, and Chumash at the end of 2nd grade.

This is a very big generalization and I encourage everyone to take it with a grain of salt.

If you a seriously looking at an out of town community, then look at each school individually. That sounds obvious, but the way schools are being lumped together on this thread.....

miami85

Thu, May 16 2019, 5:37 pm

dorothy1 wrote:

The CC mantra is "harbotzas hatorah" not necessarily chinuch. More literally Increasing Torah values, which can be done through almost any method of work the most common application of this is teaching, but community outreach is 2nd, 3rd is "Being a good Jew in the workplace."

amother

Slateblue

Thu, May 16 2019, 5:50 pm

I'm so sorry for hijacking the thread. I live in a town with a community school. It is very behind the in town schools that we were used to and does not prioritize kodesh. I just meant the statement as a generalization of what I thought day schools were like and a warning that small communities may only have day schools that do not prioritize kodesh. I'm very sorry and I know now that this is not the case. I don't know anything about cc out of town schools

amother

Orange

Thu, May 16 2019, 5:59 pm

I'm only anonymous as if I post under my screen name it will give me away, and I'd prefer not to do that. We are a Chofetz Chaim family who moved here not-too long ago. While not a typical "Chofetz Chaim" community, I'm going to put "South Bend, Indiana" on here. Yes, its small. It has a history of being more "charedi" but in recent years, it has become more "mainstream" with more of an ecclectic mix. More "yeshivish-Frum" than not, which is somewhat unusual for an out-of-town community. In the past few years more Chofetz Chaim has become more accepted, girls from South Bend have been marrying Chofetz Chaim guys (whereas previously it was a primarily Lakewood-only crowd). 20 years ago you had to be careful of non-frum kids in your kid's class, but not anymore. The classes are mixed through most of elementary school, but kids go on to top yeshivos and seminaries. The job/housing market are the biggest growth-inhibitors as there are not really current openings in the day-school market which is why more Chofetz Chaim families don't move here. It helps if you have an online or at-home job b/c there aren't a lot of big corporations here, but there are tuition vouchers, the school is very accommodating and everyone is friendly here. From my experience with Chofetz Chaim communities, while they are amazing people, is that with the exception of some of the older communities, like Miami Beach/Boca, and Milwaukee, the other communities are more "growth" oriented and coming from a "charedi-chassidish" type school, Chofetz Chaim--who are much more into "pnemious" and "internal growth" rather than "exterior and 'black and white'", a community like South Bend might be more your speed. For more specific information you can reach out cdisouthbend@gmail.com

miami85

Thu, May 16 2019, 6:06 pm

ruchelbuckle wrote:

Quote:

Finally, oot schools are behind in town schools. It's common for kriah to be taught in 1st grade, siddur end of 1st grade, and Chumash at the end of 2nd grade.

That's because the NY schools are in heavy competition with each other and all want to be "elite", whereas OOT schools don't have to compete they can teach kids when they are more developmentally appropriate to learn kriah. The later you teach it, the faster it goes because the kids grasp the sound-symbol concepts. They also teach to a more diverse style of learner out of town which tends to benefit everyone.

amother

Ginger

Thu, May 16 2019, 6:07 pm

Quote:

I'm so sorry for hijacking the thread. I live in a town with a community school. It is very behind the in town schools that we were used to and does not prioritize kodesh.

Off topic too, I live OOT not in a CC community and the day school here is similar. The interesting thing though is I think it's by choice. Many of the families moving here specifically want a more laid-back approach to life and I think this carries over into their children's education. They want their kids to not have homework, not have tests, not feel the pressure of learning - more that life should be "fun" and they should just love Torah and mitzvos lishma.
I can't say I think they're being successful in their vision, but it is a relatively young community so who knows.
We may end up moving away because it's just not working for us or our kids

mamadreams

Thu, May 16 2019, 6:08 pm

I am overwhelmed and very appreciative by everyones responses! ty all so much for such valuable information Smile

mamadreams

Thu, May 16 2019, 6:23 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

The community in North Miami Beach does sound right up your alley, but housing is not that cheap there. To rent is between 2500 and 3000 a month and to buy is around 500k. And the homes are not large. Still though, if you can hack it financially, it's a wonderful community. It's decently large for out of town and has a very close community feel. There's a large chofetz Chaim system there and one of the main elementary and high school systems are run by CC people. For girls, they only have through fifth grade, then the girls transfer to the regular Bais Yaakov system. A nice school, but not CC run. Still, all the CC families send to Bais Yaakov, so you are getting the same quality friends just a different administration. For boys, they can go through Bais Medrash there. NMB also has a lot of other segments in the community, they have a nice growing kollel, there's a large lubavitch presence, and there's a lot of just plain frum. The community as a whole gets along very nicely. Not a lot of politics BH.

Boca Raton has a nice CC elementary for boys and girls and a boys high school and bais medrash as well. For girls though, the local High School is very modern. Most of the CC girls commute to NMB for high school. It's about 45 mins away. Housing is possibly a drop cheaper than in NMB but not by noticeable difference. The whole community overall though is much more modern so I'm not sure what you have to gain n Boca over NMB. I would think based on your description that NMB would be a much better match for your family over BOCA.
if you are looking for a very small community, Orlando has a nice CC elementary school, but pretty small. There are only abiut 5 CC families there. There are jobs available in the school and community at large anf it'ss the type of place where your presence there will make a big difference to the community. They don't have high schools for the girls or the boys though so people send out which is not ideal. They are about a 4 hour drive from Miami and the average house goes for around 350k.

Las Vegas also is a small community, but it has about 30 CC families and it is, and I believe its the most rapidly growing CC community in the world. They have a well-established elementary, and a newer boys high school and Bais Medrash and this coming year they're also opening a CC girls high school. The overall frum community is not very large, it's the real sticks of out of town, so the CC community makes up a very large percentage of the overall frum community. I'm not so familiar with the home prices there, but I believe it is somewhat cheaper than living in South Florida.

St. Louis (Chesterfield) has a boys high school and Bais Medrash run by CC. There are about 5 CC families living there (maybe a few more than that). The elementary schools and girls high school are not CC run but they do exist so you wouldn't have to send your kids out. I think the housing prices on Chesterfield are more than in the regular frum St Louis area.

Milwaukee (the east side) is predominantly CC, with their big High school and BM being WITS which is a CC school. The elementary school is part CC (I believe, it depends on the current staff. At one point they had a CC prinicipal but he retired) and the girls high school is CC run but is very small. A number of the girls don't stay local for high school. they go to Chicago or elsewhere. The east side housing is considerably more expensive than the west side where most of the non CC frum community lives, with Rabbi Twerski at the helm. Milwaukee has a pretty cheap cost of living overall, with cheap housing on the westside and pretty cheap tuition, so it tends to attract people who are looking for a lower-income very out of town community.

I think that about sums up the communities in America. If I can think of another one I'll post it here.

does anyone know about the "lifestyle" cost of NMB? simchas, shabbos clothes etc.

mamadreams

Thu, May 16 2019, 6:24 pm

sorry I didn't mean to quote the whole post! am still new at this...

amother

Denim

Thu, May 16 2019, 9:08 pm

orange whats the weather like in southbend. when I looked it up it sounded pretty bad and I think it was rated one of the worst cities to live but then again I think cleveland, st. louis, chicago, memphis... were also so...

amother

Magenta

Thu, May 16 2019, 9:25 pm

No mention of Dallas?? Great OOT community and a very large CC population as there is a CC boys high school here.

amother

Orange

Thu, May 16 2019, 9:44 pm

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

Having lived in NY for 14 years, so far not THAT much difference. Yes its a bit colder sometimes, but it really only affects the men walking to shul, but even this past winter wasn't SO bad. There was some snow, but no blizzards, we got a few storms that were a few inches, and one ice storm, but not as bad as I was expecting--also we drive everywhere, no waiting at bus stops, everyone drives/carpools to school. We got hit by the Polar Vortex for a few days, but we just stayed inside and were prepared and those were the only "Snow Days" my kids had. The really "different" thing here is the zmanim are all wacky b/c we are so far west in the Eastern Time Zone. Right now shkiya is after 9pm and it gets worse until June. But overall our neighborhood is nice. It's a bit like "Monsey"--and I was just there, you have to drive everywhere, but the houses are in a residential area. and the shopping is in like shopping centers and in our neighborhood you mostly see Jews walking around. There are non-Jews, but they mostly keep to themselves and no one walks alone at night--but again "night" isn't until after 9pm, so not really an issue. No real traffic unless you have to commute to Chicago--which some people do, but not too many. The Cost of living is MUCH cheaper here. Taxes are cheaper, gas is cheaper. We have a "makolet" type of kosher store, not a ton of variety but they have what we need, and the owner will try his best to accommodate any pressing needs and people go to Chicago a lot for bigger shopping needs.

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