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-> New York related Inquiries
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amother
Slategray
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 Wed, Jul 03 2019, 11:32 pm
ridiculous from beginning to end. Love how you had to mention that he’s chasidish and all other unimportant identifying info. Funny thing is My husband having identical issue with our tenants in Harlem who are not chasidish, trash and infest every area of the building , live off every govt program, don’t pay their measly rent and are criminally obnoxious anyway...aaaand don’t have parent he could whine too. So y’think The chasidish are tough tenants?! Puhleeeeez. There are no greater slumlords than bp. Landlords give you nothing for horrific high rent and make a fuss out of stupid 500 repairs. Hire a maintenance guy to declutter the hallways and do some repairs. Cheaper than waiting 6 months and upgrading the apt to find new tenants.
Time for the bp landlords to stop being so haughty and greedy. I wouldn’t be surprised to discover that you’re apt is some illegal attic you had the chutzpah to charge such a nauseating sum for...And that’s why you can’t take legal action.
Would love to hear his side of the story too.
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amother
Powderblue
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Wed, Jul 03 2019, 11:38 pm
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To be fair to the op, these details emerged during the conversation, in response to questions. She didn't start by saying that she had a chassidishe tenant etc.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Jul 03 2019, 11:40 pm
| amother [ Powderblue ] wrote: | | To be fair to the op, these details emerged during the conversation, in response to questions. She didn't start by saying that she had a chassidishe tenant etc. |
Thanks but I actually dont think it was me saying tenants are Chassidish. I think some other Imamother assumed that.
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amother
Ginger
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 1:16 am
My temperature in my apt was 59-67 all winter and my gas bill over $500 and wouldn't think of withholding rent because of that. The landlord totally knew about it before we moved in and had no problem trying to get the most rent she could. We did withhold rent because of a much bigger issues. BE CAREFUL OF SLUMLORDS. I am not mochel my landlord we pay every dollar we work hard for to rent and we suffered terribly and couldn't live in peace.
When we asked she should TRY to help us out she calls him a mechitif and ganav and banged down the phone. She gave us a hard time repairing a rusty pipe for $100
After one of the massive issues we were withholding rent for, was partly resolved after a couple of months (could have taken a week) she is still fighting for every last penny. We were so naive when we took the apartment. She wanted us because we were "Good: No I realize it was because she thought she can get away with all the issues. I learned the hard way that greed can bring out the worst in people
she looks at it as a business and not that we are a heimishe family who have to live in peace. BTW all her tenants have issues with her but they are scared to start up. So the point of this is that its a two way street. Sometimes its the landlord, sometimes its the tenant and sometimes its both.
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amother
Wine
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 1:21 am
| amother [ Slateblue ] wrote: | | I seriously don't understand why op is insisting on keeping these tenants. There must be a reason she's keeping obnoxious tenants whom she claims are paying below market rate, but she won't say what it is. I would start the eviction process (with legal advice) in a new york minute. |
You obviously have never tried to evict a tenant within NYC, which is a tenant’s town. Eviction proceedings entail a great amount of aggravation (and heartache) for a (small) landlord. Tenants can string the process out for a year or more, all the while the landlord is paying an attorney and not collecting any rent . . . I know people, who have paid tenants off to move - rather than go through the eviction process. In Brooklyn - Eviction is always a last resort!!!
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crust
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 7:24 am
Op when you tell him/her that you need the apartment what do they say?
Why don't you renew the lease?
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amother
Slateblue
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 7:41 am
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | | You obviously have never tried to evict a tenant within NYC, which is a tenant’s town. Eviction proceedings entail a great amount of aggravation (and heartache) for a (small) landlord. Tenants can string the process out for a year or more, all the while the landlord is paying an attorney and not collecting any rent . . . I know people, who have paid tenants off to move - rather than go through the eviction process. In Brooklyn - Eviction is always a last resort!!! |
Correct, it's a long annoying process. And what do you think op is facing if she doesn't evict?
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amother
Wine
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 8:31 am
Not saying she shouldn’t start the process - but I can understand why she would not want to. It’s a daunting and unpleasant prospect.
In any case, I think a Bais Din is the first step (before going to secular court).
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watergirl
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 8:59 am
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | | You obviously have never tried to evict a tenant within NYC, which is a tenant’s town. Eviction proceedings entail a great amount of aggravation (and heartache) for a (small) landlord. Tenants can string the process out for a year or more, all the while the landlord is paying an attorney and not collecting any rent . . . I know people, who have paid tenants off to move - rather than go through the eviction process. In Brooklyn - Eviction is always a last resort!!! |
Oh, I’m so sorry. Thats part of being a landlord. When you decide to take a tenant, this must be part of your cheshbon. You may have to do this. And if you don't want to deal with it, don't take a tenant.
So many people think it would be a good way to subsidize their mortgage payment by turning an area of their house into an apartment (legal or not). This needs to be looked at as a calculated risk. The LL will have tenants who destroy the space, tenants who skip town, who complain.... this is part of the risk. Tenants have rights for a reason though. So many LLs think its just collecting a check and painting every now and then. If you are not willing to deal with all aspects of being a landlord, don't do it. Find another way to subsidize the mortgage or don't buy a place you cant afford in the first place.
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amother
Wine
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 10:38 am
| watergirl wrote: | Oh, I’m so sorry. Thats part of being a landlord. When you decide to take a tenant, this must be part of your cheshbon. You may have to do this. And if you don't want to deal with it, don't take a tenant.
So many people think it would be a good way to subsidize their mortgage payment by turning an area of their house into an apartment (legal or not). This needs to be looked at as a calculated risk. The LL will have tenants who destroy the space, tenants who skip town, who complain.... this is part of the risk. Tenants have rights for a reason though. So many LLs think its just collecting a check and painting every now and then. If you are not willing to deal with all aspects of being a landlord, don't do it. Find another way to subsidize the mortgage or don't buy a place you cant afford in the first place. |
You don’t sound very sympathetic. Tenants should absolutely have rights - to not be taken advantage of, but landlords should have the same rights - to not be taken advantage of. Renting out a legal apartment is a legitimate source of income, and a tenant who chooses to rent an apartment is committing to pay for it - same as committing to pay for use of any goods/services. Not paying rent is a breach of the most basic part of the contract between landlord/tenant.
As a small landlord of a legal 3-family house, I have been through the eviction process in NYC several times, and it has been grueling and unpleasant (to say the least). We are landlords who rent out our apartments below market rent (because our tenants can’t afford more), we don’t raise their rent - even over 10+ years (for the same reason). We make all repairs promptly, even if they’re not our responsibility (because the tenants would never bother). We generously share common spaces (e.g. backyard, storage, etc.) that are not included in their lease. We do not complain about kids making noise or messes . . . We deal with having to re-sort their garbage, because they do not bother to comply with recycling laws, etc. In other words, we put up with a lot without complaining, and earn/deserve the rent money. None of our delinquent tenants have denied owing us the rent, but they have all managed to string out the process -first in Bais Din, and then in court - by not responding to hazmanahs or summonses, and then by pleading for (and receiving) mercy from both.
Both Bais Din and court are far more sympathetic to tenants than to landlords - even when the tenants are living far better than the landlords on the landlords’ money. There seems to be an implicit presumption that all landlords are rich and can afford to lose money, while all tenants are poor and worthy of handouts (by those same landlords). Every time a tenant does not appear and/or is given another month to return - that is another free month on the landlord’s back. (For large landlords with hundreds of apartments, this may be a small cost of doing business, but for a small landlord, this may be most or all of their income.)
I sympathize with OP, and I wish I had some sage advice to offer, but there isn’t any. We have been advised by others (who have done the same) to just offer $10-15,000 to the tenants if they move, but we haven’t been able to stomach that, even when we have lost that much (or more) in the end. At the end of the day - NYC is a tenants’ town, and it is very hard to force a tenant to move if they don’t want to (even if they are not paying rent, and especially if they have kids).
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watergirl
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 10:46 am
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | You don’t sound very sympathetic. Tenants should absolutely have rights - to not be taken advantage of, but landlords should have the same rights - to not be taken advantage of. Renting out a legal apartment is a legitimate source of income, and a tenant who chooses to rent an apartment is committing to pay for it - same as committing to pay for use of any goods/services. Not paying rent is a breach of the most basic part of the contract between landlord/tenant.
As a small landlord of a legal 3-family house, I have been through the eviction process in NYC several times, and it has been grueling and unpleasant (to say the least). We are landlords who rent out our apartments below market rent (because our tenants can’t afford more), we don’t raise their rent - even over 10+ years (for the same reason). We make all repairs promptly, even if they’re not our responsibility (because the tenants would never bother). We generously share common spaces (e.g. backyard, storage, etc.) that are not included in their lease. We do not complain about kids making noise or messes . . . We deal with having to re-sort their garbage, because they do not bother to comply with recycling laws, etc. In other words, we put up with a lot without complaining, and earn/deserve the rent money. None of our delinquent tenants have denied owing us the rent, but they have all managed to string out the process -first in Bais Din, and then in court - by not responding to hazmanahs or summonses, and then by pleading for (and receiving) mercy from both.
Both Bais Din and court are far more sympathetic to tenants than to landlords - even when the tenants are living far better than the landlords on the landlords’ money. There seems to be an implicit presumption that all landlords are rich and can afford to lose money, while all tenants are poor and worthy of handouts (by those same landlords). Every time a tenant does not appear and/or is given another month to return - that is another free month on the landlord’s back. (For large landlords with hundreds of apartments, this may be a small cost of doing business, but for a small landlord, this may be most or all of their income.)
I sympathize with OP, and I wish I had some sage advice to offer, but there isn’t any. We have been advised by others (who have done the same) to just offer $10-15,000 to the tenants if they move, but we haven’t been able to stomach that, even when we have lost that much (or more) in the end. At the end of the day - NYC is a tenants’ town, and it is very hard to force a tenant to move if they don’t want to (even if they are not paying rent, and especially if they have kids). |
I’m not sympathetic. All of what you wrote is your choice. You don't have to be a landlord. You don't have to have tenants. Or, you can chose to find tenants who can afford market rate. You can raise their rent. You don't have to share the space you’ve mentioned. Tenants 100% are wrong to abuse the system. But landlords need to go into this with their eyes wide open and understand the risks. And yes, I’ve rented in a multi family house and was not allowed use of the back yard, hallways, etc. I knew that when I made the choice to sign the lease. Everything is a choice.
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amother
White
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 10:50 am
| amother [ Babypink ] wrote: | You keep saying they are not paying market value, but they got the apartment ten years ago when they did pay market value and you probably raised them since.
You can’t expect a tenant of ten years to be paying market value To this date.
Unless you want to kick out your tenants every 2 years when the market value jumps up.
That’s the way it works in BP, you can have 2 ppl in exact same apartments with exact same landlord but the one that’s there longer will be paying less. |
Why can't OP keep raising the rent?
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amother
Wine
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 10:57 am
Renting below market rent, not raising rent, allowing use of extra common spaces and storage are my choice - and I am not complaining about that.
Tenants not paying rent and abusing terms of their lease is not my choice. That is the tenants’ choice - and delinquent tenants don’t deserve the sympathy and allowances they receive from both Bais Din and the courts - who both assist them in taking advantage of others.
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watergirl
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:01 am
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | Renting below market rent, not raising rent, allowing use of extra common spaces and storage are my choice - and I am not complaining about that.
Tenants not paying rent and abusing terms of their lease is not my choice. That is the tenants’ choice - and delinquent tenants don’t deserve the sympathy and allowances they receive from both Bais Din and the courts - who both assist them in taking advantage of others. |
I agree with your second paragraph. All of the other things that you mentioned are irrelevant to this discussion.
And like I said, you can go through the motions and evict if you need to. I am not sympathetic about the hassle. Thats what you sign up for when taking tenants. The choice I mention comes in when you decided to become a landlord. You didn't have to do that. Bad tenants are always a risk and easily avoided by not taking any at all.
Last edited by watergirl on Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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flowerpower
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:02 am
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | | You obviously have never tried to evict a tenant within NYC, which is a tenant’s town. Eviction proceedings entail a great amount of aggravation (and heartache) for a (small) landlord. Tenants can string the process out for a year or more, all the while the landlord is paying an attorney and not collecting any rent . . . I know people, who have paid tenants off to move - rather than go through the eviction process. In Brooklyn - Eviction is always a last resort!!! |
You are 100% right! I heard that they want to make the rent controlled so you can’t raise your tenants and if you want to evict them then they have two years to do that while they don’t have to pay any rent🤯
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amother
Wine
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:04 am
| watergirl wrote: | I agree with your second paragraph. All of the other things that you mentioned are irrelevant to this discussion.
And like I said, you can go through the motions and evict if you need to. I am not sympathetic about the hassle. Thats what you sign up for when taking tenants. |
The tenant signs up to pay rent. That seems to be the point you are missing here.
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watergirl
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:05 am
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | | The tenant signs up to pay rent. That seems to be the point you are missing here. |
Yup. I get it 100%.
Don't take tenants and this wont be a problem.
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flowerpower
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:09 am
| watergirl wrote: | Yup. I get it 100%.
Don't take tenants and this wont be a problem. |
You’re serious??? Many people that buy a house rely on the tenants rent to help them pay for their mortgage. It’s a very normal and common thing to do.
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watergirl
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:17 am
| flowerpower wrote: | | You’re serious??? Many people that buy a house rely on the tenants rent to help them pay for their mortgage. It’s a very normal and common thing to do. |
Yes I’m serious. I also said upthread not to take tenants for this reason. Thats bad business. Here’s a thought. Buy what you can afford on your own.
ETA: I’m pretty sure any mortgage lending institution would agree with me.
Last edited by watergirl on Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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33055
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Thu, Jul 04 2019, 11:18 am
| flowerpower wrote: | | You’re serious??? Many people that buy a house rely on the tenants rent to help them pay for their mortgage. It’s a very normal and common thing to do. |
There's already a housing shortage. You don't want to remove more units from the housing stock. That doesn't help anyone.
Watergirl, what you are saying is don't get married, then you won't have SB problems. It's a choice.
Don't have a job, you won't have boss problems. It's a choice.
Don't freelance, you won't have problems with customers paying. It's a choice.
We live in a society. Some people work. Some people are landlords. Some people are married. This is how societies work. You can't excuse horrible behavior by saying those in a lawful roll choose to provide a needed service.
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