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Do you actually know someone who was vaccine injured?
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Poll

Do you actually know someone who was vaccine injured (not a headache, minor seizure, etc.)?
Yes
 19%  [ 61 ]
No
 74%  [ 229 ]
Something Else
 0%  [ 3 ]
Temporarily, but it was addressed and fixed BH
 4%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 308


southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 7:14 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Do you think people were aware of the risks of vaccines at that point?

Or was it like x-rays, which were "proven to be safe" and "totally harmless"?


Polio had crippled and killed people and after seeing smallpox and diphtheria disappear, there were already millions of satisfied customers.
This was before doctors and the government were branded as the enemy. It was before draft dodging, the hippy movement, or the view that the pharmaceutical industry existed to create more sick people. My parents and grandparents were horrified by the Beatles, which got popular a few years later.

We looked at our doctor as someone who really had our best interest at heart.
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helene




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 5:56 am
Dr Tom O'Brian, the word's top specialist on coeliac and gluten sensitivity, just aired his new summit called"Betrayal the autoimmune solutions they're not telling you" and towards the end of day 6 discusses vaccines with various specialists and concludes without any doudt that in NO way are vaccins safe and effective for everyone. Some ingredients are very toxic to the brain.
There is a desperate need for proper longterm safety studies, unbiased by pharmaceutical companies, done by independent, highly qualified researchers.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:54 am
helene wrote:
Dr Tom O'Brian, the word's top specialist on coeliac and gluten sensitivity, just aired his new summit called"Betrayal the autoimmune solutions they're not telling you" and towards the end of day 6 discusses vaccines with various specialists and concludes without any doudt that in NO way are vaccins safe and effective for everyone. Some ingredients are very toxic to the brain.
There is a desperate need for proper longterm safety studies, unbiased by pharmaceutical companies, done by independent, highly qualified researchers.


Tom O'Bryan is a chiropractor. He is not a medical doctor. Chiropractors have vastly less medical education than medical doctors and routinely engage in harmful practices. What do you think makes Tom O'Bryan an expert? The fact that he says that he's an expert?

Has he published any studies in a reputable peer-reviewed journal? About any of the issues he talks about?

I happen to agree with him on one of his other positions -- that gluten can be harmful even to people who are not actually celiac. But that fact, while perhaps not widely known, is not generally disputed. On vaccines, he's just a crackpot.
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helene




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:20 am
Just because he is chiropractor doesn't make him into a crackpot! By the way he interviewed specialist in the field and they told him vaccines are NOT safe and there needs to be more independent research. It wasn't Dr O'Brien saying it. Just ask all the parents who have vaccine damaged children.you know scientists working inside merk, the main manufacturer of vaccines, do NOT vaccinate their children because the research on safety was manipulated and partly hidden and never published.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:44 am
helene wrote:
Just because he is chiropractor doesn't make him into a crackpot! By the way he interviewed specialist in the field and they told him vaccines are NOT safe and there needs to be more independent research. It wasn't Dr O'Brien saying it. Just ask all the parents who have vaccine damaged children.you know scientists working inside merk, the main manufacturer of vaccines, do NOT vaccinate their children because the research on safety was manipulated and partly hidden and never published.


Not all chiropractors are crackpots, but the field was founded on extremely bizarre theories that have not been shown to be true. If you want to read about how the founder of chiropractic treatment claimed that he founded his theories from the "other world," and how the field explicitly rejects the scientific method, visit the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic. Certainly, having a chiropractic degree does not qualify him as an expert. At all.

Why haven't I talked to a parent with vaccine-damaged children? Because I don't know any. Also, please provide evidence of these employees of Merck who do not vaccinate their children.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:01 am
If someone wants to compare chiropractor care to vaccines, both medical approaches have been known to have rare but severe or deadly adverse reactions. Nobody ever claimed that vaccines are 100% risk free but neither is chiropractic adjustment.
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helene




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:19 am
Just because you don't trust chiropractors doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing!. I can tell you from my own experience that they are very often today the people who can help in many chronic conditions. Wikipedia is not a reliable source of info. Anybody can write on there whatever they want. And since big pharma today is fighting any alternative medicine on all fronts, they are only too happy to plant misinformation wherever possible.
But just think about it , a vaccine is a highly potent chemical, with ingredients partially derived from dead animal or dead tissues from foetuses or sometimes from live tissues. Than you add some strong chemicals to activate the vaccine and then you inject into very young or not so young humans. And than you think nobody reacts badly!? People even react badly to milk or eggs or nuts . So why not to strange chemicals that are not even processed through the stomach but can go straight to the brain.?
You don't have to be a super scientists to understand this!
Just go and read the inserts from the vaccines
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:33 am
Helene, there are so many errors of fact in what you wrote above, that I can't begin to address them. Regarding Wikipedia:
(1) Wikipedia has been demonstrated to be more accurate than Encyclopedia Brittanica for scientific articles.
(2) Each article in Wikipedia has sources, so you can go to the sources themselves and read them. What they are saying about chiropractic treatment is well established.

It makes no sense to ask for more studies, as you have done, and to cite chiropractors, since chiropractic theory explicitly rejects the scientific method.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:38 am
helene wrote:
Just because you don't trust chiropractors doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing!. I can tell you from my own experience that they are very often today the people who can help in many chronic conditions. Wikipedia is not a reliable source of info. Anybody can write on there whatever they want. And since big pharma today is fighting any alternative medicine on all fronts, they are only too happy to plant misinformation wherever possible.
But just think about it , a vaccine is a highly potent chemical, with ingredients partially derived from dead animal or dead tissues from foetuses or sometimes from live tissues. Than you add some strong chemicals to activate the vaccine and then you inject into very young or not so young humans. And than you think nobody reacts badly!? People even react badly to milk or eggs or nuts . So why not to strange chemicals that are not even processed through the stomach but can go straight to the brain.?
You don't have to be a super scientists to understand this!
Just go and read the inserts from the vaccines


What you are claiming about all of this "dead tissue" and "strong chemicals" in vaccines is a bit of a manipulation. The military vaccinates it's personnel and then those men and women have to develop the strength to protect their countries. According to your way of thinking, the government is turning them into such cripples that they belong in hospitals rather than on battlefields.
I wonder what percentage of the athletes of the NFL and NBA are vaccinated but I would guess that it is the majority.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:48 am
southernbubby wrote:
If someone wants to compare chiropractor care to vaccines, both medical approaches have been known to have rare but severe or deadly adverse reactions. Nobody ever claimed that vaccines are 100% risk free but neither is chiropractic adjustment.


If one wants to compare chiropractic care to vaccines:

-- It has been demonstrated that vaccines have eradicated one terrible disease, smallpox, from the world; have eradicated other diseases, such as polio, from large parts of the world; and have greatly reduced the incidence of many other diseases, such as measles and German measles, and their horrific consequences, including a very high rate of deafness and mental retardation to the children of pregnant women who caught the disease.

-- It hasn't been demonstrated that chiropractic care helps with most conditions. Chiropractic manipulation has small benefits for relieving back pain, about the same as conventional treatments like physical therapy.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:55 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
If one wants to compare chiropractic care to vaccines:

-- It has been demonstrated that vaccines have eradicated one terrible disease, smallpox, from the world; have eradicated other diseases, such as polio, from large parts of the world; and have greatly reduced the incidence of many other diseases, such as measles and German measles, and their horrific consequences, including a very high rate of deafness and mental retardation to the children of pregnant women who caught the disease.

-- It hasn't been demonstrated that chiropractic care helps with most conditions. Chiropractic manipulation has small benefits for relieving back pain, about the same as conventional treatments like physical therapy.


I was comparing the risks rather than the benefits because the thread is about adverse reactions. Some chiropractors give advice about nutrition that may be worthwhile if people actually follow it. In the occasional situation where alternative medicine practioners are pro-vaxers, they are instrumental in getting people to vaccinate.
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princessleah




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:59 am
helene wrote:
Just because you don't trust chiropractors doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing!. I can tell you from my own experience that they are very often today the people who can help in many chronic conditions. Wikipedia is not a reliable source of info. Anybody can write on there whatever they want. And since big pharma today is fighting any alternative medicine on all fronts, they are only too happy to plant misinformation wherever possible.


I can’t hold her.... the irony.... is too.... strong
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:05 am
southernbubby wrote:
I was comparing the risks rather than the benefits because the thread is about adverse reactions. Some chiropractors give advice about nutrition that may be worthwhile if people actually follow it. In the occasional situation where alternative medicine practioners are pro-vaxers, they are instrumental in getting people to vaccinate.


Southernbubby, but you can't talk about risks without also talking about benefits. It makes little sense to incur a small risk for a low likelihood of benefit; it makes a lot of sense to incur a small risk for a very large benefit. It's all about the risk-benefit ratio.

You are right that some chiropractors and other alternative medicine practitioners are open to Western medicine, including vaccines, and to good nutrition. (Many, though, push supplements rather than or in addition to nutritional advice.) I shudder, though, at the situation you describe, because it sounds like chiropractors are acting as PCPs, and they are absolutely not qualified to act as such.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:13 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
Southernbubby, but you can't talk about risks without also talking about benefits. It makes little sense to incur a small risk for a low likelihood of benefit; it makes a lot of sense to incur a small risk for a very large benefit. It's all about the risk-benefit ratio.

You are right that some chiropractors and other alternative medicine practitioners are open to Western medicine, including vaccines, and to good nutrition. (Many, though, push supplements rather than or in addition to nutritional advice.) I shudder, though, at the situation you describe, because it sounds like chiropractors are acting as PCPs, and they are absolutely not qualified to act as such.


Chiropractors advertise as though they are a substitute for medical care. Unfortunately if doctors don't address diet and lifestyle, it pushes people into the arms of alternative medicine practioners.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:26 am
southernbubby wrote:
Chiropractors advertise as though they are a substitute for medical care. Unfortunately if doctors don't address diet and lifestyle, it pushes people into the arms of alternative medicine practioners.


I agree that medical doctors don't sufficiently address lifestyle issues. I understand that their time is limited; they really can't. But there must be better ways to do it. In the same way as a medical tech does part of the preliminary process, like taking blood pressure, temperature, oxygen saturation, etc., there could be some kind of paraprofessional medical educators who talk to patients about lifestyle issues.

At the latest doctor visits that I've had, from two different institutions, I've received very long printouts when I've left the office, much longer than a CVS receipt and many times as wide. Honestly, though, they had nothing I didn't know; outdated information about meds I was taking (I was prescribed an inhaler in June 2017 when I had pneumonia, and it's still on those stupid printouts!). They could do a much, much better job with that.

I've said this many times: It's not that I am the greatest fan of Western medicine. It has saved my life and enhanced the quality of my life several times (not including vaccines), so I am grateful, but they have occasionally missed things, and have got things wrong so often that I start off every visit being wary and skeptical. But they are so much better than chiropractic treatment, which helped only marginally with neck pain that I had (in any case, I think it was the prescribed stretches that helped rather than the spinal manipulations; I should have just gone for PT), and where the chiropractor gave dead wrong and harmful advice on so many other topics, and not just to me.
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helene




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:43 am
Anyway my original post was about safety of vaccines.And whatever any of you say and think you know, would any of you want a vaccine injured child?? I'm sure not. So therefore parents should be able to decide if they want vaccination for their child or not. And nobody should be forced to vaccinate.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:44 am
I personally know a Merck employee. His child is about 5-7 and has been vaccinated on schedule, including the with flu shots, which we have discussed randomly in conversation.
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helene




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:16 am
I made a spelling mistake before. I
am referring to Dr Tom O'Bryan, a top specialist on gluten intolerance and sensitivity.
And yes the military is a big test laboratory for vaccines. Yes many soldiers have permanent damage from vaccines.
Go and read the inserts for vaccines. It will give you the ingredients and the possible side affects.
B"h not everyone suffers side effects. But every single one is one too many. I don't want to sacrifice the health of my child so someone else's should stay well!!
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helene




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:17 am
Why can big pharma not make safe vaccines??
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amother




Ecru


Post  Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:40 am
I'm not sure why posters are even responding to someone who clearly has one agenda and one agenda only. Real studies seem to have no relevance.

And by the way, since you use it as a scare tactic, yes, I have read vaccine inserts (I work in healthcare).

You posted in another thread that you vaccinate your kids fully. Why do I doubt this?
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