Do you actually know someone who was vaccine injured?

JoyInTheMorning

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:50 pm

nchr wrote:

These last few posts are filled with such illogical nonsense I dont even know where to begin.

Vaccines save more money than they make.
Cancer has been around thousands of years.
People are living longer than ever before.
1 in a million or three million people have a severe reaction to a vaccine, but many more to the serious diseases they prevent.
Most chiropractors are not MDs.
If you're trying to say that a vaccine has some potential impact 60 years later - what about vitamins?
Vitamins are a multi billion dollar industry.
Although vaccines are by and between safe, we do try to make them safer all the time.

Great point about the vitamins. I think we covered this ground some months ago, but I'll repeat: High dose supplements do not help and can cause harm in people who are not deficient in the nutrient they're taking. Megadoses of some vitamins can cause cancer: Too much Vitamin A/beta carotene is associated with an increase in lung cancer; too much Vitamin E is associated with an increase in prostate cancer. See https://www.cbsnews.com/news/d.....isk/. Granted, no one is forced to take vitamins, but vitamins are a cornerstone of the alternative medicine movement; there are almost no studies on their safety and efficacy; and the few studies that there are show that they're not too safe. But you don't see the same requests for long-term studies of vitamin safety.

amother

cornflower

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:58 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Exactly this. Every anti-vax person who asks for more studies should be required to submit the design of a study that would convince them that vaccines are safe. The study must conform to a rigorous experimental framework, as described in David J. Glass, Experimental Design for Biologists.

If they can't do that, they're not serious about asking for studies. It's just a gambit in their delay-deny-refuse anti-vax game. And again, I wouldn't care, except that it endangers their own innocent children, and many others, including the immunocompromised; and is a chillul Hashem.

I think Black requires every vaccine to have 90 years of testing before she’d consider it safe for use. It’s an impossible standard.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 5:21 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Nchr, do you know of any chiropractors who are MDs? I don't know of any and have never heard or read of any. That doesn't mean none exist, but the combination has to be exceedingly rare.

She must mean DOs. There are also osteopaths who didn't study medicine. The DO training is almost identical to the training that MDs get and they can practice medicine the same way. They usually vaccinate their patients.
Some insurers will partially pay for chiropractors if the condition is one that is relieved by spinal manipulation. I would rather see someone try that than resort to opioids.

helene

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:03 pm

I do not live in America and here in Europe you can for sure have MDs who study chiropractic. But that's all not to the point.
If a robber comes into your house and tells you "don't stick your fingers into the plug it might kill you" you don't believe him because he is a robber, how would he tell you anything that's true??? So JoyInTheMorning you can think and say what you want, but when some knowledgeable people say vaccines are NOT safe and need more proper long-term safety studies they are right. You can't just force everyone to be injected with poison. That is dictator ship even if you think it 's for the benefit of others.

amother

Black

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:05 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

I think Black requires every vaccine to have 90 years of testing before she’d consider it safe for use. It’s an impossible standard.

I'll be ok with 50 years. ok, y'know what? 30 years is fine enough. Or how about 10 years? I mean, you'd think we haven't studied the long-term effects of measles, the long-term effects of smoking, of consuming too much sugar, of X-rays... Only vaccines cannot be studied for their cancer-causing qualities?
And what about fertility? I mean, people aren't fertile for 90 years post-childhood vaccination. How difficult is it to track people into their 20's and 30's and see the effects. HPV vaccine specifically has been anecdotally been connected with girls losing their cycles. But we "can't" study the connection???
It's astounding how many of you have drunk the kool-aid.

nchr

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:11 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Nchr, do you know of any chiropractors who are MDs? I don't know of any and have never heard or read of any. That doesn't mean none exist, but the combination has to be exceedingly rare.

No, I do not. I don't know many chiropractors, but I have no idea why an MD, even if naturally minded would call oneself a chiropractor when they completed the schooling and exams necessary to be a Doctor. Also, it's not even the same area of expertise. Maybe Helene is confused because ppl call them dr? Still, they are not medical doctors.

nchr

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:14 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Because we have studied this long term. I don't understand what you are saying? It's impossible to link certain things, which means they do not cause the other. Also, almost everyone is fertile today or can make a pregnancy happen. You do realize how many women never had children years ago? This type of garbage is astounding to me. Why do you think that a vaccine would impact fertility? Are you blaming every issue in the world on vaccines? This is illogical.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:18 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

About 50% of Americans develop some type of cancer, usually in their old age. About 15% of Americans are infertile, sometimes because they delay childbearing. We also have a lot of hormonal stimulation from the way that our food is raised, grown and packaged and physical maturity is happening earlier which raises the risk of cancer and infertility.
So again black, how would you link a cancer in an elderly person to the vaccines that he got as a child? How could you prove that an infertile couple in their 30's was damaged by vaccines? People are asking you here how to study this.

nchr

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:23 pm

southernbubby wrote:

She's also not understanding how many people would ch'v be blind, deaf, physically or mentally disabled or ch'v not alive without vaccines. How can we leave this out in a discussion about vaccinations?

helene

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:40 pm

To nchr. How do you know that vaccines haven't caused physical or mental damage to children? That's exactly the problem. We do not know because there are no proper safety studies. And infertility today is a huge problem. I don't know what makes you say it isn't. And no we don't for sure know that it's caused by vaccines but there is a possibility. So let's do proper research into safety of vaccines and proof either way. And if the studies have been done and big pharma has nothing to hide so let everyone see these studies.

amother

Black

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:41 pm

nchr wrote:

You are throwing a bunch of statements out here and I'm supposed to accept it because you said so?
There are no long-term vaccination safety studies.
Impossible to link certain things is not the same as not having studied the connection (which is what the vaccine insert states).
Almost everyone is fertile today? Bonei Olam can now close down because nchr said so.

amother

Black

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:48 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I don't understand you at all.
Thousands upon thousands of things have been studied, connections that occur years later.

The reason these two things haven't been studied is not because the vaccine manufacters can't (I don't even know where you took that info from); the reason these things haven't been studied is because they don't think there's a connection. Why are you defending vaccine manufacturers more than they themselves are saying?

amother

Black

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:54 pm

nchr wrote:

We don't have to leave it out, but first we need to get to the point where everyone acknowledges that vaccines carry significant greater risk for known adverse reactions than is officially stated, and that there are still many unknown adverse reactions possibly occuring but we don't know because they haven't been studied.
Once we're on the same page with that, we can agree to the conclusion that it is each individual's right to choose the risk they are willing to undertake. You will definitely vaccinate your kids regardless of mandates. As will JoyInTheMorning and southerbubby. But your conclusions shouldn't be forced upon everyone. I, as a parent, should be entitled to the right to choose to forego a risky possibly preventative medical practice.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:03 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

We see, for example, a 2% increase in cancer rates among people who have had CAT scans but what percentage of people get CAT scans as opposed to what percentage of the population is vaccinated? Sometimes the connection between two things is very obvious such as the Flint Michigan water crisis or Love canal.
I can't copy and paste the link on this phone because I am horrible at it and you are welcome to blame that on the fact that I am vaccinated. Those numbers are commonly quoted and when I did have cancer, I read everything that I could find.
There are probably numerous animal studies regarding vaccines and cancers and it would be interesting if someone could find them. Obviously because an animal has a shorter life span than a human, it is probably easier to observe the development of cancer from any cause.

nchr

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:05 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

But I do believe that the risk of a severe adverse reaction is 1 in one million or three million. I also believe in an individual's right to choose. Also, why would Bonei Olam close? I mean that almost everyone who wants a child today can find a way to push through with modern medicine. Infertility is not some new concept. Our studies are our 40, 50, 60 years old. They are BH healthy as ever and thriving, and were vaccinated. The generation before them was not "healthier." This is due to medical advances, which includes vaccines.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:16 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

So do you think that babies should be forced to get sick in order to protect your right to choose? Just like you wouldn't want to risk your child getting injured by vaccines, I likewise want to protect my grandchildren from catching VPDs. The only way that can be accomplished for both of us to have our "rights" is for people like me to limit physical contact with people like you. That's why I agree with school policies that won't accept non-vaccinated children. But hey, at least you don't have to give the shot as long as you homeschool.

amother

Black

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:28 pm

nchr wrote:

The risk of severe adverse reaction is way more than 1 in a million, but enjoy your bubble.

Bonei Olam is busier than ever. Infertility is more and more common these days. Speak to the experts.

Which studies are 40, 50, 60 years old?

The generation before them went through the Holocaust, the Great Depression, and more.

I'm all for medical advances in healing the sick. Let medical advances create safer vaccines. Let them study vaccines long-term, and not merely 4 days or 48 hours or at most 6 weeks. Preventative care with (even minimal) risk attached to it must be a choice.

amother

Black

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:30 pm

southernbubby wrote:

So you will vaccinate your grandchildren, and they will be safe from catching VPDs. You don't get the irony that the only way you can have your right (being safe from VPD's) is if you infringe on my right (and force me to vaccinate), while if vaccines would actually work the way they were intended to work, we would all be fine? Why don't you advocate for more effective vaccines instead of trampling on my rights?

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:47 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

As you know, infants cannot be adequately protected against some VPDs and the only thing parents can do is isolate them. Why would anyone value someone else's rights over the safety of their babies? I don't know why that would even be an expectation. Of course it would be great to be able to protect them effectively via vaccines but until that happens, we need to look out for ourselves and our loved ones. Everyone is primarily responsible for their own, right?